Feb 28, 2024
Andy Chasteen, co-director of the Rule of Three gravel event in Bentonville, Arkansas, joins host Craig Dalton to discuss the vibrant gravel cycling community in Northwest Arkansas. They delve into the importance of connectivity and safe infrastructure for cyclists, the origins of the Rule of Three event, and the unique experience it offers with a combination of pavement, gravel, and singletrack. Andy also shares his perspective on event organization and the value of creating a memorable and enjoyable experience for participants. Don't miss this engaging conversation about the growth and excitement surrounding gravel cycling in Bentonville.
Rule of Three Website
Episode sponsor: Pillar Performance (use code CRAIG for 15% off)
Join The Ridership
Andy Chasteen is an avid cyclist and the co-founder of Rule of Three, a unique gravel cycling event held in Bentonville, Arkansas. He has a background in rock climbing and ultra marathoning, which led him to discover his passion for cycling. Andy is also a consultant in the outdoor industry and has worked with brands like Allied Cycle Works. He is dedicated to creating a vibrant cycling community in Northwest Arkansas and promoting the gravel riding experience.
In this episode, Craig Dalton interviews Andy Chasteen, co-founder of Rule of Three, about the vibrant gravel cycling community in Northwest Arkansas and the unique gravel event they organize. They discuss the growth of Bentonville as a cycling destination, the importance of connectivity and safe infrastructure, and the origins of Rule of Three. Andy shares his journey from rock climbing to cycling and his passion for creating events that offer a challenging yet enjoyable experience for participants. He also emphasizes the value of different types of gravel events and the need for inclusivity in the cycling community.
Automated Transcription. Please excuse the typos:
[TRANSCRIPT]
[00:00:00] - (): Craig Dalton: Andy welcome to the show.
[00:00:03] - (): Andy Chasteen: Thank you. It's an honor to
be here. I've been listening to you for a long time.
[00:00:08] - (): Craig Dalton: That's amazing
[00:00:09] - (): Andy Chasteen: to hear Andy. Well, sometimes
it's just weird to be on a podcast that you've been listening to
and you're talking to the person that you listen to all the time.
So it's. It can be awkward, but it's great.
**** - (): It's an honor to be here. Thank you.
[00:00:20] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I
feel like I've been observing your antics from afar for a while. So
I feel like I know you a little bit, but it's the first time I
think that we've actually got a chance to chat.
[00:00:30] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah. Yeah. I'm S I'm super
stoked to talk to you. So sweet,
[00:00:34] - (): Craig Dalton: well, a lot of people will
have heard of rule of three, and I definitely want to get into that
event.
**** - (): Super excited to talk to you about that and, um, gravel
cycling in Northwest Arkansas as well. Just as a general topic,
because I know as we were talking about offline, that community
that you're part of cultivating and a member of is just. So vibrant
that, uh, you know, I just love to hear stories from the ground and
how other communities can mimic what you're doing and the passion
that the community seems to have for gravel riding.
[00:01:04] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah. It's, uh, you know, as
we were, as we were talking a few minutes ago, there's a lot going
on here and, uh, it's quite exciting. And as we like to stay around
here, we're, uh, we're just on first base, which is kind of, which
is kind of exciting to, to even say, yeah.
[00:01:19] - (): Craig Dalton: And for those of us who have
been to Bentonville to.
**** - (): To, to hear you describe it as first base is insane
because you've got great infrastructure. You can get around town on
bike paths, but that's just the tip tip tip of the iceberg. There's
a couple of substantial mountain bike areas and obviously miles and
miles and miles of great gravel as demonstrated in the big sugar
gravel event every
[00:01:41] - (): Andy Chasteen: year.
**** - (): That's right. And, uh, you know, we're working on, you
know, like you said, connectivity, and I don't mean to jump
straight into this, but like a lot of what we are working on in the
Bentonville area is connectivity. How can we connect neighborhoods,
uh, you know, business centers and just life in general to trail
and gravel road and safe connectors to get out into these rural
area, like.
**** - (): That's a, that's a thing that's been on our mind for,
you know, well, for, for a while, but what we've really focused on
in the past year is, is really making, it's connecting, uh,
Bentonville or the Northwest Arkansas area to the ride experience,
which has been a fun, a fun time for
[00:02:24] - (): Craig Dalton: sure. Yeah, I bet. You know,
that, that safe connector thread, I think is so important because a
lot of areas are great for cycling, but you have to get there and
many of us want to ride there.
**** - (): And if riding there is dangerous, that's just going to
prevent people from enjoying the sport in the way we want them
to.
[00:02:42] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah, uh, the lens with which
we've been looking at, uh, let's, let's just stay on the gravel
side for now, but like the lens with which we've been looking at
the gravel side of the, you know, the experience in Northwest
Arkansas is, has been heavily towards, okay.
**** - (): This area is growing. This area is growing very, very
fast. And there's, there are some things that we cannot control and
we can't control growth. You know, we, we, we don't, you know, we
want the Bentonville Northwest Arkansas area to grow and be
prosperous. And, you know, but we also have to make sure that that
experience for the rider is You know, safe, it's enjoyable.
**** - (): Um, it's, uh, it's approachable for someone who might be
brand new. So that's kind of the lens with which we've been looking
at the gravel experience. And quite honestly, we're building gravel
connectors that are not used by cars. They're just for cyclists to
get from. Say, let's just say for right now, uh, the center of
Bentonville out into these rural areas.
**** - (): So as Bentonville grows and the footprint expands, those
will be protected in perpetuity for their gravel experience, which
is really cool. And I'm maybe there's other, you know, communities
doing that. But if, if they are, I'm not aware of it. And it really
is this amazing foresight, uh, to where 20 years from now, we hope
that the gravel experience is protected and enhanced and, uh, and
it's still what it currently is.
**** - (): So.
[00:04:11] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's probably worth, you
know, I've, I've spoken about Bentonville a couple of times on the
podcast before, but it's probably worth noting that the sort of.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the major employer in Bentonville
is Walmart and then entities that are related to Walmart. And it's
just, it's been there for many, many years.
**** - (): Sure. The Walmart family has had a commitment to
investing in cycling infrastructure. So that when they're thinking
about their new campus from the ground up, they're always thinking
about how can people ride bikes in and it seems from an outsider's
perspective that that's infused across the entire town.
**** - (): Just this idea that bikes are going to be part of this
community and to your recent point, we're going to build in
infrastructure from the onset of planning, not try to slap it on
after we've built a subdivision or grown the community in
[00:05:02] - (): Andy Chasteen: some way. That's right. There
has to be some foresight and you're right there.
**** - (): That's the, that's the, that's the focus for sure. And
it can't be done. Like you said, behind the ball, we have to be
ahead of the ball on that. You know, for example, the walmart's
building a new, uh, ginormous, uh, home office campus and on that
campus will be single track and there's initiatives within the,
within the home office, you know, To, to have a certain percentage
of people commuting there, you know, to, to work on, you know, on a
weekly basis.
**** - (): And so there is a lot of foresight within, you know,
cycling and riding a bike is not only healthy, but it makes, you
know, it's just, it's better for a community as well. So, yeah,
absolutely.
[00:05:44] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. And as an off road
cyclist, I remember going from my Airbnb to an event that the
people, people for bikes conference people were having at the, that
great museum you have there.
**** - (): And I remember Bridges. Yeah, Crystal Bridges. Yeah. And
I remember having the opportunity to ride single track just on the
way there to get from point A to point B. And I was like, this is
fantastic.
[00:06:07] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah. There's kids, you know,
kids ride single track to school every day, which I mean, yeah, I'm
a little jealous cause I wish I would have had that experience, but
yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's, we got a lot going on here.
**** - (): There's it's. I like to use the word bonkers. There's a
lot of bonkers things going on here. It's busy. It's bustling and
it's great. If you're a bike rider, it's hard for me to think
there's a better place to be. That's for sure.
[00:06:32] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, no, I agree. It's
definitely someplace everybody needs to visit at some point.
**** - (): You know, Northwest Arkansas 10 years ago might not have
been on people's radar as a cyclist as a place to go. And now I
think unequivocally for anybody who's set foot in that town of
Bentonville in that area, it's an emphatic yes, go visit.
[00:06:51] - (): Andy Chasteen: That's right. Yeah, for sure.
For
[00:06:52] - (): Craig Dalton: sure. You were talking about
sort of childhood and the ability to ride to school, etc.
**** - (): Yeah. Let's, let's roll back a second and just kind of
learn a little bit more about where you grew up, Andy. And how'd
you find the bike originally?
[00:07:05] - (): Andy Chasteen: Well, man, that's a long
story, but I'll try to, I'll try to keep it short. Uh, I grew up in
Southern Missouri, kind of right across the border, actually from
Northwest Arkansas.
**** - (): It's a really small town. Went off to college. Um, I
played, I actually played basketball in college and, uh, you know,
in, into team sports, basically, you know, my entire childhood and
into, you know, probably 21, 22 years old. And then after I
graduated college, I, I got obsessed with rock climbing for some
weird reason and, uh, and got really into rock climbing, ultra
marathoning.
**** - (): Um, and like I said, like a very long story made very
short, maybe not very short, but short, um, I was running the, I
was running ultra marathons and in order to train for ultra
marathons, I'm like a big guy by like 200 and I knew that I
couldn't run a lot of miles to train for these ultras. And so what
I would do is I would go out for like, you know, maybe like a 10
mile trail run and then I would jump on a bicycle.
**** - (): I wasn't a cyclist, but I would jump on a bicycle. To
take that, you know, pressure off of my joints and like keep injury
free. And so I, I would go out and jump on a bicycle for four hours
and I just got hooked, completely hooked and really the rest is
history, been on a bike ever since. Um, and you know. I still love
to do all these.
**** - (): I love outdoor endeavor, outdoor rec, anything outdoor
rec, paddling, you know, climbing trail. I like all that, but my
obsession is certainly with the bike. So, um, that's the, that's
the short story and we
[00:08:39] - (): Craig Dalton: did you discover yourself as
a, as a mountain biker in those early days or what, what was your
niche of choice?
[00:08:46] - (): Andy Chasteen: Uh, at the time I was
actually living in, in Oklahoma city and which, which is, you know,
It's there's, there's not a lot of what I would consider like great
bike riding there, but the community is amazing. It's a very tight
knit, not a big community, very tight knit, but it's very road
centric. Um, so I started off kind of on the road bike and, uh, you
know, I raced, I did road racing and crate racing and all that.
**** - (): And, uh, I, I was, I was certainly into mountain biking
at the time, but that wasn't what I spent most of my days doing. So
it kind of started on the road.
[00:09:17] - (): Craig Dalton: Gotcha. Since we're going to
get into the rule of three event that you're putting on there in
Bentonville, I think it's going to be interesting to just talk
about your journey and experience as an event organizer.
**** - (): And I know from your bio that a rock, a big rock
climbing event happened sometime. In that period. So why don't you
walk us through like that event? Cause I think it is for those of
you who haven't heard of Horseshoe hell, go look it up. I think I S
I want to say I saw, uh, some stuff on Red Bull TV about it, but
I've read about it now outside magazine over the years.
**** - (): So it's a really amazing event, but I'd love to just
hear how it got started because I think it's part of your origin
story as someone who stuck up their hand and said, I can put on
an
[00:10:00] - (): Andy Chasteen: event. Yeah, for sure. So
like, you know, rewind back when I was in this very obsessive rock
climbing phase and, uh, you know, there's a, there's this
beautiful, beautiful canyon out in, uh, in Arkansas called, uh,
Horseshoe Canyon Ranch, and they have, you know, 600, uh, you know,
sport routes.
**** - (): Um, so single pitch technical, you know, sport route,
rock climbing. And I would spend a lot of time there in kind of the
early years of my climbing. And we just, me and some buddies, when
we can get this crazy idea, it's, it's kind of an outdoor climbing
gym. You got a route here, you can climb this route, you take, you
know, 10 steps to your right and you got another one, you know what
I mean?
**** - (): It's like route on route on right on route. And they're
all really good routes. And so I, we got this wild idea to put on
an event that was like a 24 hour rock climbing competition, which
seems. Idiotic. Yeah. Had anybody
[00:10:54] - (): Craig Dalton: done that in the past? No, no,
no. Yeah, we have like on the mountain bike side, there's 24 hour
mountain bike racing, but sounds like it was a totally foreign
concept.
[00:11:03] - (): Andy Chasteen: Very foreign. Of course,
very, very foreign. Um, and so, and all my buddies thought it was a
great idea, but nobody really wanted to like I kind of take the
reins. So I took the reins and, uh, and, uh, you know, I, it's a
private, it's a private property. So I, you know, I went and asked
the owner and he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
**** - (): You can do that. And just, and thus started this
beautiful relationship. This is 2006. And, uh, this, this beautiful
relationship with this, with this great, amazing place. And we
built this. really cool experience where it started off as a 24
hour rock climbing competition, but now it's a five day festival,
right?
**** - (): And so, uh, outside climbing or I'm sorry, outside
magazine calls it the burning man of rock climbing. So you got
people in costumes and it's a five day love fest party, right?
Like, It's I like to say, you know, you can come here and be
anybody you want to be for five days as long as you're respectful
to, you know, to your fellow, you know, people there.
**** - (): So, um, and the rest is history. It still happens. We're
still, we're still doing it. And, uh, even though I'm not like a
huge climber is into it as I used to be, um, it's still, it's still
a raging, we can, we can only allow 500 competitors, um, so that
people can like. Accomplish their goals that they set out, you
know, for that 24 hours, we can only let 500 people in, but it the
amount of spectators that come and the people who just want to kind
of party for the weekend is way beyond that.
**** - (): So, yeah, it's really cool. And oddly enough, I'd never
put on a bit before that. I had never even been to a rock climbing
competition before I put that on. And sometimes I think that that
is actually the golden ticket. Like, yeah. It's almost better to
not know how things are done or they're supposed to be done when
you're trying to do something that way you can be creative and kind
of do, you know, something a little different.
**** - (): So anyways, that was kind of the origins of my first
event. And I don't consider myself. I still don't consider myself
an event promoter because I have always just done them for fun.
I've always had a real job. And, uh, but these have always been for
fun and we've cultivated beautiful communities behind them.
**** - (): And that's, that's what I'm proud of, um, in these
events.
[00:13:15] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Amazing. I'll make sure
to link to Horseshoe Howell. Cause I just, I think it's a
fascinating story and the pictures that come out every year.
Yeah,
[00:13:22] - (): Andy Chasteen: it looks awesome. It's a real
wild time. It's a real wild.
[00:13:26] - (): Craig Dalton: Is it a two person team for 24
hours or is it solo?
**** - (): That's
[00:13:30] - (): Andy Chasteen: it's a two person team. Cause
you have to have a belayer obviously. So the whole idea is like,
but there are categories just like any other event. Like, you know,
there's categories for the most amount of routes climbed by a team
or an individual or the F the most amount of, uh, Uh, routes climb
that are certain, you know, difficulty level or whatever the case
may be.
**** - (): So you, there's all these just like, um, like kind of
like the Tour de France. There's a race, there's lots of races
within the race. There's lots of categories within this bit, this
one event that you can actually go after, which is kind of
cool.
[00:14:02] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. So much fun. So
much fun. When did you find yourself actually moving to Bentonville
and what, what attracted you to, to that area?
**** - (): Uh,
[00:14:12] - (): Andy Chasteen: I'm trying to think of how
many years ago that was that I, that I moved to Bentonville. I, I
originally, I originally, uh, became involved in the Bentonville
area through, um, I'm self employed. I'm a consultant in basically
really what I I've always considered like the biker outdoor
industry. And so I really started coming to Bentonville years ago,
um, as a consultant for different brands in the industry.
**** - (): So I, you know, I had go to Bentonville and, uh, in my
sprinter van and, uh, and spend, you know, you know, Half of a
month there at a time. I spent half my time there, uh, just kind of
living out of the van and working for clients and doing work that
way. And, uh, eventually I moved full time. Uh, we're full time in
Bentonville now, but my wife and I, but, um, it started off as kind
of like I was kind of, I hate to use the word squatting in
Bentonville, but I was kind of squatting in my Sprinter van in
Bentonville for work.
**** - (): Yeah. Which is wild. Obviously
[00:15:06] - (): Craig Dalton: you started to discover some
of the riding throughout the area. Yeah. Okay. Was there a certain
point in time when you sort of got under, got your first gravel
bike underneath you?
[00:15:17] - (): Andy Chasteen: Uh, I had been, I had been
dabbling in gravel bike, you know, before I started going to
Bentonville.
**** - (): I was super into the gravel scene early on, um, for a
lot of different reasons. Um, I, I grew up in the outdoors. Um, you
know, hunting, fishing, things like that. And it just felt like
gravel was more all in line with like my personality and where I
came from. I, I grew up in a rural area. So even today, when I ride
my gravel bike in rural areas, it feels like I'm home.
**** - (): And so, um, I was, I was into the gravel scene pretty
early, I guess, if you will, but not because I thought it was the
next big thing is just because it kind of resonated with my
culture. Yeah. Personality or my soul a little bit more. Yeah.
[00:15:58] - (): Craig Dalton: Did that, did that lead you to
testing the water or some of those early
[00:16:02] - (): Andy Chasteen: events?
**** - (): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a lot of, you know, I
wrote an article many years ago. I'm trying to remember when, when
that was, but I wrote this crazy article. I have to look it up on
the date, but the, and it was just for like my personal website. It
wasn't to like, you know, I wasn't a journalist or anything like
that, but I wrote this article and this is when, you know, mid
South was, was called, you know, the land run 100.
**** - (): And the article was, was titled. Oh yeah. Um, and it
just gave all the, I gave all these reasons because it was a bill.
It was, it was for everyone. It was for everyone who wanted to ride
a bike, no matter who you were and the, the community, the
community building and like. So I, I just, it resonated with me
early, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
[00:16:48] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. And imagine, you
know, at that time, obviously being familiar with Mid South and all
the events that were going on at that time, over the subsequent
years, we started to see, I mean, for lack of a better word, a
professionalization of some subset of races. Sure. Lots of
community based races. I mean, still to this day, I think event
organizers have to kind of navigate their lane and understand like
what type of they're putting on.
**** - (): But as we come to the rule of three, I'm just curious of
your mindset of. Was there something missing? Was it more, Hey,
Bentonville is awesome. And I know my way around and I want to show
people a great day out there. Talk us through the mindset of the
origin of that event.
[00:17:33] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah. Um, I think, I think
there's probably a combination of, of, of maybe all of those, um,
The origin came, I have to say, you know, allied cycle works has
been one of my clients for quite a few years.
**** - (): And, uh, a guy named Sam Pickman, he's the director of
product over there. He designs all, you know, all the bikes and
everything. I'm a podcast guest over here. Oh, no way. Okay. That's
awesome. Yeah. Sam is a super good buddy of mine. I adore him. And,
uh, there's actually a connection with that too, because Sam's
wife, Lauren is my co director for rule of three.
**** - (): So anyways, I want to back up. Uh, we were, you know,
when the Abel came out, Allied's first, first gravel bike, um, we,
we were on, Sam and I were riding around, um, on the, on prototypes
in Bentonville one time, and we were hopping on single track and
popping in and out of single track trail and then back onto gravel
and things like that, and we got this one day, boom, all this crazy
idea, why don't we put on an event that is equal amounts pavement,
uh, Gravel and single track, and we kind of like threw it around a
little bit.
**** - (): We thought it was a really cool idea. And that honestly
is the origin of rule of three. And really, we sat on that idea for
probably 2 or 3 years or I did the Sam's busy. He doesn't want
that. He didn't want it. That's not Sam's lane, right? Sam is a
brain. He's a brain guy. Um, so that was where the origin of the
idea came from is riding our gravel bikes on the single track in
Bentonville.
**** - (): And so we sat on this idea for quite some time. Right.
And this would have been early 2021. I remember specific, the
specific time when I decided it was go time for rule of three, um,
uh, Mid South, uh, uh, uh, Mid South again, I love you, Bobby, Mid
South had just canceled, uh, their event because of COVID. And the
reasoning behind is we can't bring people from all over the country
here.
**** - (): Um. Because, because of COVID and I thought to myself,
well, you know what I could do? I could put on an event in
Bentonville where it's just locals, no one has to travel and we
let, you know, we have maybe 150 people show up and that is our,
like dipping our toes into the event scene, right? This is my
time.
**** - (): This is my time. And so I like started this free
Instagram account and just kind of started marketing the idea
behind rule of three. Um, next thing, you know, we sold out 700
spots in the first year. I didn't, wasn't expecting that, but, um.
That's the origins of Rule of Three. And quite honestly, I'd never
put an event on.
**** - (): I've been to a lot of them, obviously, um, and I didn't
do it out of, out of a desire to do something. I didn't think it
was necessarily something that was lacking in the scene. I just was
like, you know what? I want to put on an event and I want to do it
my way. You know what I mean? Um, and we'll do it different than
everyone else.
**** - (): Um, because I personally speaking, I find value in all
of these different ways that gravel events are put on. I think
they're all valuable. I think they're all great. Right. Whether
you're putting on this beautiful, UCI feel, you know, SBT gravel,
that's a polished and beautiful, or you've got unbound. That's this
really long ginormous event, right?
**** - (): That's like the worldwide, or you've got rule of three,
which we put it on in a freaking field. We're dirty. We're grimy.
We're different, right? I find value in all of those. And I think
that, I think that, you know, uh, There's, there's enough of an
audience now to where, uh, to where all of these different ways of
putting on an event find value with, they resonate with, you know,
a certain audience.
**** - (): And I, so that's, that was really the reason behind it.
Yeah. A
[00:21:13] - (): Craig Dalton: hundred percent. I remember
when I first read about rule of three, I was like, this is my jam
because I often say like my favorite events. You're going to hate
your bike at least once during the event. Event organizer did it
right. And when you guys kind of came out with rule of three, I was
like, this is awesome.
**** - (): Like it's really putting a fine point on like. You
better pick your poison and I very much enjoyed hearing stories
about it and hearing some of the racers talk about it because they
were going through these thought processes in their head. Like I
remember Ian Boswell talking about it and he's like, you know, I
know I'm not going to rip single track.
**** - (): So if I'm going to be competitive in this race, I need
to do something on the road section and on the gravel section
that's going to meaningfully displace some of the more skilled
mountaineers
[00:22:02] - (): Andy Chasteen: in the bunch. And he did, he
did that year, you know, he put the hammer down and dropped almost
everyone on a, on a really long kind of gravel pavement sector, you
know.
**** - (): Um, which, you know, the routes really hard, you know,
you know, it's historically speaking, we've, it's been a hundred
mile route with about 10, 000 feet of climbing and about 20 miles
of singer track, you know, it's, and he don't do all that single
track at once. Like you're kind of in and out of stuff all day.
**** - (): Right. And that's the whole idea. You gotta be on, there
is no zoning out at rule of three, you zone out, that's when you're
in trouble. You know, and so the whole idea was to do something
that was really, really difficult. Um, but keeps you on and honest
all day long. Right. Yeah. And so, um, that was kind of the idea
behind it.
**** - (): We throw a huge finish line party. Um, and that's one
other thing that we do differently. We're in a field, right? We're
in this big wide open field and you're, the finish line is
basically a two track road. Last year we built a cyclocross curl
course for you for the finish line. Um, and so, and what we do,
what I do on purpose or what Lauren and I do, I, I should give
Lauren the, Lauren does most of the work.
**** - (): She's the brains behind the operation. What we do is we,
we build the finish line. And this is a, this is a very important
part for, for the, the brand of Rula3. Our finish line, you cross
that finish line in the finish line shoot, and you are in the
party. We don't shoo you out of the shoot. You, you, as you come in
to cross the finish line, you're in the party.
**** - (): We don't move you, you're there. You can stay there as
long as you want to. We put a bag over your shoulder, and in that
bag is a burrito, a beer, a coke, and a muffin. So that, so you
don't have to go somewhere and pull your wallet out to find food.
It's right there. We expect you to stay and have a good time with
all your friends and tell stories and whatever, right?
**** - (): But in order to do that, there, it also has to be safe,
right? So what we, what we did is we put the last corner, um, on
the course, about 10 feet from the finish line. So no one, there
are no sprints across the finish. The sprint is before you get to
the finish. And so that keeps it like nobody's getting ran over by
a bike going too fast.
**** - (): So there's, there's thought behind that because I want
people to feel like when they cross that finish line, they can stay
right there. And so all these little things that like doing things
differently, I think sets us apart and all sets all these other
events, but not just us, but everyone who does all these different
things with their events that sets them apart.
**** - (): I think that's cool.
[00:24:35] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah, that's awesome. Since I
want the listener to definitely walk away with a real.
Understanding of the rule of three course, you know, you talked
about these three elements of single track kind of gravel roads and
road, you know, as you, as you talk through people who are coming
to the event about the type of equipment they would use, I mean, is
the single track entirely, or is it.
**** - (): You know, it's rideable on, you know, a four C tire. I'm
just curious about that.
[00:25:03] - (): Andy Chasteen: We keep it, I like to keep it
as, as not gnarly as possible. That way, that way, because I don't,
I don't want to limit our audience to people who are really good
mountain bikers. I don't think that's fair. And so we try to keep
most of the single track, uh, in, in like a, like the green
blue.
**** - (): Yeah, you know, realm, right? And there'll be some
technical sections, but they're not long. If you need to hop off
your bike for a second, that's okay. It's not that big a deal,
right? We do suggest, um, nothing smaller than a 45 on tire width.
Yeah. Um, and, and 50 is your go to quite honestly, just because
really.
**** - (): The standards kind of moving that direction anyways,
but, um, you're going to have a much more pleasant day on a, on a
50 than you would say, uh, even a 45, but, um, but the course is
hard, you know, you know, in, in Bentonville, we don't have these,
we don't have these big long climbs like you do out, out where
you're at.
**** - (): So we call it death by a thousand cuts, you know, 10,
000 feet of climbing and a hundred miles when you don't have a
climb longer than, you know, half a mile at the most. You know, uh,
that's, that's a lot of steep, punchy climbing, you know, it's
really, it wears you down over the day and like death by a thousand
cuts is, is, is the name of the game.
[00:26:20] - (): Craig Dalton: It's so interesting coming
from the Bay area where, you know, we have to do an 800 foot climb
or 1200 foot climb. Just we go up and then we go down. There's not
a lot of flat rule stuff. I personally, I have a really hard time
transitioning to the Bentonville type hills because as you said,
they just. You might push over the first one and the second one,
and then they start to add up, add up, add up.
**** - (): And it hits me a lot differently as a cyclist than the
long climbs that I'm used to out
[00:26:48] - (): Andy Chasteen: here. Yeah. It's interesting.
Uh, it's an interesting, uh, difference. Like I don't, I don't
adjust well to the climbs that you do because of where I live too,
you know, so I'm used to, I'm used to 20 seconds at, you know,
whatever.
**** - (): 500 Watts or like something above threshold or
something. Right. So I guess it's just kind of, you're used to
where you're at. Right. So, um, but yeah, it's a, it's a very
unique course and we've, we've certainly started out at a, a lot of
kind of B road sections, um, which can be in general, even more
technical than some of the single track too.
**** - (): Yeah. So we, we changed the course every year, every
single year. It's different. I
[00:27:27] - (): Craig Dalton: think that, that underscores
how much terrain you have access to, to, which is exciting.
[00:27:32] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah. I mean, we change it
up. Uh, Drastically every year. It feels completely different every
year, which is cool. And you're like, you said the, the, you know,
our, uh, our canvas is big.
**** - (): So it's, it's not hard to do that, which is a huge
blessing for us. For sure.
[00:27:49] - (): Craig Dalton: The other incredibly unique
thing about this event is the entry fee. Can you talk about that?
Yeah.
[00:27:56] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah. Um. This is just kind
of another part of the, of our ethos is our brand. Like we, and
it's not just the entropy and it also, it goes back to what I said,
uh, you know, a few minutes ago, I don't do this for my job.
**** - (): This is not my day job. I'm doing this. I do this cause
I want to, cause it's fun. Lauren and I both do it because it's
important to us to put on our, our goal is, uh, not to make money
on this. I mean, I know that sounds counterintuitive, but our goal
is to put on the best event. Possible for the people that come up
that show.
**** - (): And so, um, our entry fee's, 85 bucks, um, and I believe
we began, I think our first year it was 65 and now it's 85. And
we'll never go over the amount of miles that the event is, is what,
is basically That's the goal. Yeah. I think what, what I've
committed to, and I, and I like to commit that in public 'cause it
keeps me accountable.
**** - (): One other, one other thing that we do is we do not. Take
or accept cash from sponsors. We want a sponsor to come to our
event and take that cash that they would have given us and use it
to add value to the participants, right? The people that are there.
Um, I, I'm a fallible human. And so if you were to give me just,
I'm just saying personally, me, if you're a sponsor, you're going
to give me, let's say whatever, 10, 000 bucks to be a sponsor of
rule of three, guess what I'm do probably going to pocket 5, 000 of
that and then put 5, 000, the rest other 5, 000 into making the
event better for the people.
**** - (): So. What I do to hold myself accountable is I just don't
take cash at all. I just say, if you want to sponsor the event,
then you're going to have to, you're going to have to come and add
some sort of value to the event. And, and it's, and we don't make
rules in this, which, which is cool. Like someone came last year
and cooked.
**** - (): Bacon the out at an aid station the whole day. Um, so
there's all these crazy ideas that we encourage the sponsors to
come and do, uh, aid stations, uh, parties at the finish line.
Somebody's making margaritas in one of their tents or whatever.
Specialized comes and they give they do post finish. They do finish
line photos when you're all 30 and gross.
**** - (): And yeah, and those are free. You get those for free. We
don't charge. There's no charge for those. Um, and we have. Yeah.
What I like to call the best swag bag in the, in the biz, like, um,
we give every competitor to not one water bottle too, because
everybody likes a matching water bottle. Right? So that's
right.
**** - (): We do. Yeah, we do water bottles. We, you know, you get
a tea, you get a bandana, you get a, uh, you get an ass saver, you
get, you know, you get a stainless steel pint last year. Uh, mirror
gave everybody's, uh, insulated, uh, Bottles that were logoed and
like, so we, I like, I like to have two or $300 worth of cool stuff
that people will actually use Yeah.
**** - (): In the bag that they, that they get at pack and pickup.
So for us it's really about creating value and creating a real good
time of the at, you know, at, at the event. And, uh, and that's
what we're committed to doing. So that's, I guess, a few of the
ways that we like to kind of do things different. Right. And I'm,
I'm, I'm, I'm lucky I'm blessed that, um, I don't.
**** - (): I don't put this event on for my living if I'm just
being honest.
[00:31:15] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. It changes the dynamic
entirely, I think, because I mean, it's such a, it's such a
difficult business to be in the event business. It
[00:31:23] - (): Andy Chasteen: is. It is. That's right. I
can make every decision I make is. Is not attached to the bottom
line. And I, I, I know that other events aren't like that and I, I
applaud them.
**** - (): I think every other event out there, I've been to
almost, not all of them, but a lot of them. And almost all of them.
And I will go to them this year too. 'cause I think they're
amazing, but we just wanna do things different at rule three. Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:31:47] - (): Craig Dalton: And as you said, there's room
quite simple. There's room for it all.
**** - (): A
[00:31:51] - (): Andy Chasteen: thousand percent room for
it
[00:31:52] - (): Craig Dalton: all. Yeah. I think you
mentioned this, but I wanted to make sure the listener, uh, has
this as a takeaway that the it's a hundred mile event, but it's, I
think you have a, uh, additional distance this year. Is that
right?
[00:32:04] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah, we actually, we, we
also offer a 50 mile event. Um, so that's something that like we
like to, we like to say, if you, if you don't think that you can
finish the, well, you know, this isn't your typical gravel race, it
takes or gravel event.
**** - (): I'll hate calling it a race for some reason that doesn't
sit well for me. Um, if. You know, this is not 100 mile gravel
event. This will take you a lot longer than you would. It would
normally take you to do a gravel event because of that 20 miles a
single track. Yeah, you don't think that you can finish something
like that and say 10 to 12 hours.
**** - (): We always we like, just we respectfully say you should
dip your toes in the 50 miler. And then once you've got that under
your belt, hit that next one, right? And so we've got the 50, we've
got the 100, and this year we're actually adding the 200. Um, which
will be such, it's going to be a sick route. And we're only opening
it to a hundred people.
**** - (): Because it's, you know, you know, my, my thoughts are
ultra distance. If it's not already here, it's the future. People,
you know, I'm thinking of, I'm thinking of myself. I've done how
many hundred mile events. And. Where I, while I still love them,
sometimes I think to myself, well, what's next? Right. I think
people are thinking in, I think a lot of people are thinking,
what's next for me?
**** - (): I've done 10 hundred mile gravel events. What's my next
step? Well, a 200 mile is probably your next step. And I know that
unbound is a 200 miler, but. This isn't unbound. This is, you know,
this is 200 miles with 30 plus miles of single track at, you know,
and you're circumnavigating this ginormous lake out east of
Bentonville.
**** - (): There's a lot of climbing and it's way out in the middle
of nowhere. It's an adventure. Yeah. So we're adding that on this
year. Yeah.
[00:33:45] - (): Craig Dalton: Given, given the, obviously
the duration it takes to ride the single track about 100 and the
added single track in the 200, how long of an event are you
thinking that's going to be for, I mean, I don't know how to put it
in perspective for people from the first to last, but what's the
window of time you're thinking?
[00:34:03] - (): Andy Chasteen: Well, we're going to, we'll
start the event the day before. So we'll start, we'll start the 200
miler on Friday afternoon, and it'll start from where packet pickup
is basically. Um, in town and we're, we're, we're making a 30 hour
cutoff and you'll have to wear a spot tracker on your, just like
you would any other ultra distance event.
**** - (): Right? So yeah, it really is. It's, it's unsupported.
It's fully self supported. We ain't coming to pick you up. So it's,
it's a different adventure, but I, I do, I personally believe if
it's not already here, it is the future of, of, uh, you know, the
gravel experience, at least part of the future. Yeah.
[00:34:40] - (): Craig Dalton: I mean, I think to your point,
just about the different flavors of events that exist, even in that
like a narrow hundred mile mindset.
**** - (): Now you're seeing it go both directions, which is pretty
natural. I mean, I think again, like sometimes. Riding 100 is not
enough should be for most people. Sometimes
[00:34:58] - (): Andy Chasteen: it's not. Yeah. And we, we, I
had a question. I had someone asked me the other day. Are you ever
considered making doing like a 20 miler because your events not
that approachable for maybe a newer person.
**** - (): And I was just honest. And I said, no, we're not going
to. But what we do, what we do offer is we offer training rides.
Um, yeah. In Bentonville, for no charge, they're free. We just did
what we call the Rule of 399 last weekend, which we offered a 22
miler route. For people who wanted to see what it's like, you get
to practice on the single track.
**** - (): You get to see that, wow, this is a lot harder than a 22
mile gravel ride, right? It takes a lot longer. It's harder to do.
It takes a little bit more technical skill. So we, we are, we're
trying to train up newer people to at least have the opportunity to
maybe hit that 50 miler one day. I don't think that we'll ever have
a, a distance that's shorter than that, but we do that outside of
our rule of three events, like our rule of three and nine, we do
training events and things like that to give people that approach
approachable mindset of maybe I can do the 50, you know what I
mean?
[00:36:02] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. Super interesting. And
that goes back to where we were talking about, which is that great
community of cyclists and cycling events that's growing up and
around Bentonville. It sounds like there's plenty of opportunity
and exposure. For people to all these great events that are going
on and as they sort of start to put a toe in the water, you're not
the only person who's told me there's, you know, great group ride
events quite regularly out in Bentonville for people to get a
understanding what gravel cycling
[00:36:30] - (): Andy Chasteen: is all about.
**** - (): There are, there's a lot of great events that happen in
Bentonville. It, it seems like they're, they're nonstop actually.
But, um, and they're amazing. I love to go to all of them. Um, you
know, Big Sugar's a big deal, you know? Um, and so, you know, and
there's, there's many more that's not, they're not the only one,
but there's the, the opportunity, opportunities are endless.
**** - (): You know, in our neck of the woods,
[00:36:54] - (): Craig Dalton: if you will, when does rule of
three happen each year?
[00:36:59] - (): Andy Chasteen: Uh, we have we're on the same
weekend every year. So, uh, I like to You know, it happens on may
18th, but I like to say that I think that's may 18th saturday might
be the I think it's 18th. Um, but I like to say that rule of three
is like May 16th through the 19th because we got to shake out
rides.
**** - (): We've got, you know, uh, we got, uh, breakfast on Sunday
morning. Uh, you know, uh, after the event, we've got all kinds of
things going on all weekend. So I hate to like, pin it down. Like,
I'm like, come early, stay late, bring your mountain bike to, you
know, let's party, you know? So, uh, but yeah, it's on the 18th
this year.
**** - (): Yeah. And we like, let's, I mean, yeah. I'm gonna, I'm
gonna shout out to like, I think Gravel Locos is that weekend. I
think, uh, I think Pete's Pizza Pater is that weekend. And, you
know, I've talked to, I've talked to all those guys and I'm like,
they're, you know, everybody's kind of like, are you guys, are we,
are we okay with all this?
**** - (): And I'm like. We're all in different parts of the
country. The audience is humongous. Who cares? You're going to fill
up, you're going to fill up, we're going to fill up. Let's all be
okay with this. There's no problem with us overlapping dates. I've
had zero problems with that. Yeah,
[00:38:15] - (): Craig Dalton: I'm sure. How much writer
capacity do you have for this year?
[00:38:20] - (): Andy Chasteen: We, we, uh, we limited at
1600 people, and there's a reason behind that. I think we could
probably sell 3, 000 spots, but I don't want to. I want someone who
crosses that finish line to look over our after party, right? And
feel like they know everyone there. They don't have to know
everyone there, but I want them to feel like they do.
**** - (): And so, um, I'm not interested in, uh, you know, having
it. Be bigger than that. So that's kind of, that's what we've been
at for, this will be our third year that we've been at, at 15, 1600
people. And I like that number. It's, it's nice for us. Um, it
helps, it helps our logistics and it just helps people have a
better experience too.
**** - (): And so that's probably what we'll stick at.
[00:39:04] - (): Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's funny. I was having
a totally unrelated conversation in my day job, just about a
business I used to run and this opportunity we had to basically
double the business. But I recognize that doubling the business was
going to ruin my life. It was going to be miserable.
**** - (): You know, we'd have to run two shifts in a factory. No
one would be happy. I couldn't imagine it being the same thing. And
so it's great for you. It's great to hear it from your words as
well. Just like, this is a great size for us where you're confident
that we can deliver an exceptional experience to 1600 people and
why deliver a subpar experience to 3000 people.
[00:39:45] - (): Andy Chasteen: Yeah. And part of that is
because this isn't my real job, you know, um, you know, you let
three, 4, 000 people in that becomes your real job and I don't want
it to be, I like my real job.
[00:39:59] - (): Craig Dalton: Um, when does anyone's
registration open?
[00:40:03] - (): Andy Chasteen: Registration opens, uh,
February 5th. So what is that like a few days from now? Yeah.
**** - (): Um, and that's okay. If that's okay. If you're like, if,
if this is coming out after that, it's not a big deal. I, we have
always sold out in like a minute or two anyway. So it's, it's, I
just love getting on here. And if, if, if I'm being completely
honest. The legacy that I would love to leave behind with Rule of
Three is not the event.
**** - (): The, the legacy I would like to leave behind is that
everyone goes out and rides these types of, does these types of
rides where they live, no matter where they live. Yeah. I, I call
'em rule of three rides. You know what I mean? That's a legacy I
wanna leave. Like I think that this is the funnest form of riding a
bike that I've ever experienced, even just bar none.
**** - (): And, uh, and I would, I would be happy over the moon if
everyone, uh, out there rode, did these kind of rides where they
lived. So, yeah, that's a legacy we really wanna leave behind.
So,
[00:41:04] - (): Craig Dalton: I, I love it, Andy. I'm just
going to shut up. If you had a microphone, I would have just
allowed you to drop it and we would have cut the cut the show right
there.
**** - (): But I do want to just conclude by saying thank you for
the energy you're putting into the sport, your energy into the
community there. We'll definitely put, you know, links to rule of
three because whether it's this year or next year, love for more
people to go and get exposed to that great Bentonville riding and
the experience you just described to us.
[00:41:33] - (): Andy Chasteen: Thank you. It was, it's,
I've, I'm serious. I've listened to your podcast for a long time.
How long, how long have you been doing this now? God, I think
it's
[00:41:39] - (): Craig Dalton: five years.
[00:41:41] - (): Andy Chasteen: I was going to say, I didn't
want to speak out and say, like, I've been listening to you for
three years and you've only been around for two, but cause I, I
did, I, you know, you lose track of time.
**** - (): Yeah. I'm, I'm almost positive. I've been listening to
you since the beginning. So, uh, very well done. I love listening
to your stuff. It's, I like the variety, like you're always
speaking to interesting people about all these different interests
topics. So keep it up. It's awesome. Thank you. I appreciate
[00:42:05] - (): Craig Dalton: that Andy.
**** - (): Right on. Thanks for spending some time with us,
man.
[00:42:09] - (): Andy Chasteen: Thanks man. Thank you.