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Apr 6, 2021

This week we sit down with Neil Shirley to discuss the new ENVE custom road bike. Yes, that is not a typo, we are talking about a road bike. :).

ENVE Custom Road Website

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Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos):

Enve Custom Road Interview

Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] [00:00:00]Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the show, we have Neil Shirley from envy on to talk about the ENVE custom road. You heard me correct custom road.

[00:00:17]Not to worry. We're not renaming the show, the road ride, but I thought this project was so interesting. And how they're manufacturing in the United States. That was worth highlighting.

[00:00:27]In last week's in the dirt episode, we had so many questions about how envy was pulling off this custom road. . That I thought it was worth talking to the team at ENVE and who better? Than to talk to our old friend, Neil, Shirley. 

[00:00:39]The gravel ride podcast is supported by a limited number of sponsors as well as listeners. Like you. If you're interested in supporting the show please visit buy me a gravel ride

[00:00:52]And now let's jump right into my conversation. Neil Welcome to the show

[00:00:57]Neil Shirley: [00:00:57] Thanks for having me on Craig I'm excited to talk bikes

[00:01:01] Craig Dalton: [00:01:01] You're back again You're in a  rare breed of second time guests on the gravel ride podcast

[00:01:07] Neil Shirley: [00:01:07] Really Wow It's been a how long has it been  two and a half three years since I was on the show last time

[00:01:12] Craig Dalton: [00:01:12] Yeah cause I think it was just before you moved out to Utah joined the team at ENVE

[00:01:18] Neil Shirley: [00:01:18] Yeah I'm a Yeah happy to be back thanks for letting that making it happen

[00:01:22]Craig Dalton: [00:01:22] When you work for a company like envy and you drop a project like envy custom road Despite being called the gravel ride [00:01:30] podcast I was instantly drawn To having this conversation with you

[00:01:34]Neil Shirley: [00:01:34] It's an exciting exciting bike but the whole project itself is really cool because as I'm sure You're thinking like a couple little tweaks to some of the molds and all of a sudden it's a gravel bike too Right

[00:01:48] Craig Dalton: [00:01:48] Yeah absolutely Why don't we start off Neil I'm going to refer everybody to our earlier conversation to learn a little bit about your background but for the listener Neil's a long time road mountain gravel athlete And it's really put in a lot of effort into the gravel community As has envy it's been a company that has been just thinking a lot about gravel and putting very thoughtful products in products that are used by a lot of custom builders Your handlebars are super well popular in the gravel cycling community But why don't you talk a little bit about envy as a company And where it got its start And then we'll get into this new project

[00:02:27] Neil Shirley: [00:02:27] Yeah so envy we're located in Ogden Utah So just about 40 minutes North of salt Lake and we have a large military base just just South of a vog Din And so the area for a small area it has a lot of kind of has a long history of composites and some good engineers come from the area Envy was founded in Ogden 15 years ago And It's founded by a group of four people that really wanted they had the carbon expertise Had an idea around [00:03:00] manufacturing in the U S and We're all avid cyclists and decided there's a room there's room in the market in a need for some of the products that they really wanted to ride and experience themselves that just really didn't exist or at least not at the level because they wanted them out that's where envy started with mountain rims and then moved into road rims and just as the company progressed was able to dial in aerodynamics and the road side of the business really continued to take off three years ago We moved into a new facility still here in Ogden but really what makes envy special It isn't inherently that us manufacturing is superior to manufacturing anywhere else It's I think really what makes envy special is the fact that everything all of our rims are engineering this new bike that will jump into everything is done in house So we have

[00:04:01]Design engineering Prototyping manufacturing shipping marketing everything under one roof and sit the collaboration between the different teams that actually get a product to market is all done Cohesively and efficiently there isn't shipping stuff back and forth Asia to iterate on and test it It's all done

[00:04:25]In the same building here in Austin And so that's I think that's really what makes us [00:04:30] special as a brand

[00:04:31] Craig Dalton: [00:04:31] is a really special thing to highlight I think oftentimes the layman doesn't realize how long it takes to develop an iterate on products Having had a little experience as a manufacturer myself knowing that you can go to the factory floor Make a tweak test it very quickly It's just so much more efficient than shipping a product back to Asia with notes scribbled on it and having a Skype conversation then getting a factory overseas to ship it back to you Each one of these cycles takes two or three months to sort itself out So you can imagine that just how long it takes to get a product to market

[00:05:09] Neil Shirley: [00:05:09] Yeah you're right It's the time and the expense honestly to have shipping back and forth oftentimes having an engineer that's having to spend A considerable amount of time in Asia and coming back and forth And so just to be able to do it To do it right here And honestly lunch ride and I mean we have so many of the people within envy We have 200 employees here at envy and quite a few of us are avid cyclist some of the engineers are elite level cyclist on the line the daily run lunch ride typically some prototype or sample product is getting tested and A day or two later maybe that rim that someone's riding is going to be iterated on a new prototype is made and a day or two later we're out test riding it on the lunch right Again So that's [00:06:00] a spring through fall is what you can expect

[00:06:03] Craig Dalton: [00:06:03] Super interesting as you the components gain steam presumably at some point you moved into manufacturing tube sets for other builders Can you talk about that process and what that's been like

[00:06:17] Neil Shirley: [00:06:17] Yeah the tube sets so early on with envy we really And still what we're doing now We looked at the market and w we could carve out a spot for ourselves And not that really came at the time was serving the custom handmade builders that were predominantly Using steel or titanium We We were able to roll tubes and do carbon tubes them And we still do it's a very that part of the business shrunk as more bikes are molded now molded carbon now but we've think we still work with Calfee doing some of their tubes we worked with Parley in the past independent fabrication So of the more notable handmade builders we've been able to service them and still to this day I mean a lot of those builders are using the forks Forks is a large part of our business Yeah the builders have been really They've been a huge part of our success

[00:07:18] Craig Dalton: [00:07:18] I have to say that That

[00:07:19] Neil Shirley: [00:07:19] where we're at today

[00:07:20] Craig Dalton: [00:07:20] the envy builder Roundup is one of my favorite events of the year

[00:07:25] Neil Shirley: [00:07:25] Yeah

[00:07:26] Craig Dalton: [00:07:26] so

[00:07:27] great Just looking at all those bikes there They all [00:07:30] everybody comes out It's like the handmade bike show

[00:07:33] Neil Shirley: [00:07:33] Yeah I'm excited unfortunately The North American handmade by Cho is not happening this year And so this will be year three for us for the builder Roundup it's June 25th This year and

[00:07:48]Fingers crossed we'll be able to last year it was just a virtual show which was great It challenged us in new ways and it allowed us to really take that content and serve it to a bigger audience not just doing the open house this year we'll do the same but we'll also have an open house so hopefully we can have Have people out here we'll have a number of the builders here inside envy visiting us And of course the bikes on display So yeah it's It's really cool to see every each of these builders their own idea of what their ideal bike is and the custom builders they're ahead of the curve in what trends are because can make a bike so quickly If you have to if you're waiting on Cannondale or specialized or some of these brands like they're doing great stuff but there there are two years behind what the custom builders are doing so you can look and see what going on with these builders and see what How people are riding bikes how much tire clearance they want I mean there was a lot of were a number of gravel bikes at the show last year with 700 by 50 tires on it It's Whoa this is a trend I mean Mo bigger and bigger tires Anyway it's really cool see what each builder has [00:09:00] in mind and how their bikes are being used

[00:09:02] Craig Dalton: [00:09:02] I remember seeing that last year And I think it coincided with the introduction of your adventure fork If I'm not mistaken but just seeing that trend which is aligned with where I'm going personally I think bigger and bigger tires just fits where I want to go and what I want to do on the gravel bike Which is interesting And I think a lot of the conversation on the podcast this year Has been around Bike packing and adventure rides As the events got taken off the calendar More and more riders were looking to just create their own adventures

[00:09:34]Neil Shirley: [00:09:34] Yeah I mean that's Everyone was some of the rides I saw on Strava People I was following were doing it It was like almost without the racing They had were no limits or boundaries 200 plus mile rides on a Saturday and multi-day bike packing rides So people got really creative I was I was jealous Some of the rides that people were doing because I mean that's really That's the spirit of want to say just gravel because there's you can do it on the road too but I think truly gravel brings that out more and Allows people just to have More of that adventure that they're looking for And that usually leads to just some over the top rides

[00:10:22] Craig Dalton: [00:10:22] Yeah And as I've been talking about a lot lately just the idea for me about calm combining road and off-road [00:10:30] riding In creating these loops that are just atypical from what I would normally do is really inspiring me for 2021 to frankly set my bike up a little differently and definitely think about where I'm going to go differently

[00:10:45] Neil Shirley: [00:10:45] Yeah

[00:10:47] Yeah I agree I

[00:10:48] Craig Dalton: [00:10:48] Yeah I've personally been on a little bit of a road kick which I'd never thought I'd say I think I've just it's I had a friend come into town who had only had a road bike and I just I remit started to remember all the things I used to love about road riding So when this new project got publicized the NV custom road bike it was like it couldn't have been more perfect timing Let's sit down and talk about it So let's it sounds like the bike was a long time coming So do you want to talk about The history behind the bike and then we'll get into some of the details

[00:11:21] Neil Shirley: [00:11:21] Sure So the bike

[00:11:23] The

[00:11:23] bike was much the original product that envy it was when envy was found that it was actually called the edge And then after about a year and a half two years The name was changed to envy but it was one of the very original products and it kept kidding Getting pushed back because there was a greater the management team felt that there was Greater potential with expanding the wheel line and then components from there And frame just get caught in a got kicked down the road a bit and then It was two and a half years ago that the project started in earnest [00:12:00] and it was That was when the engineers actually started really looking at what is the spike and a B In 2016 envy released the 4.5 AR wheels which is one of our still to this day One of our best-selling wheel set The problem with that wheel set is that at the time in 2016 there were very few frames that wheel work in so it's a 25 millimeter internal which and it's made for 28 plus millimeter tire So it was the wheel design for Dimension data the world tour team that we're working with to race at Perry Ruby so they could still have aerodynamics that they would want on a race wheel set with a high volume tire and they're just very few frames that had the clearance to a few race frames performance bikes

[00:12:54] were that

[00:12:55] would allow that size wheel entire That's when the engineers were like okay what would what would this modern road bike look like so that kind of was the catalyst of okay let's put together some ideas So then finally two and a half years ago They actually started drawing it out and then it's been about a year and a half that we've been riding prototype frames The first I got on the version one prototype The last would have been a year ago in January and then That was looking [00:13:30] at okay what are some of the geometries and then from there what does

[00:13:33]What is the laminate The layup look like how steep is it Stiff enough as a two-step just understanding the ride quality and then I've for about the last three and a half four months I've been on the final version which is the bike that we just launched last week It seems To us around here It's been a really fast project and stuff happening quickly but now stepping back and thinking like wow two and a half years that's a really long time

[00:13:55]Craig Dalton: [00:13:55] So the bike that was launched is available One of the couple of points I wanted to clarify because I was a little bit confused when I first read it it's available with two different geometries of the race and the all road And then from there there's additional amounts of customization that are available on a rider by rider basis

[00:14:15]Neil Shirley: [00:14:15] It is it

[00:14:16] is custom geometry When What that means though What we're customizing is the fit Basically the stack and the reach is what we're allowing customers to customize And so want to make sure that each rider gets exactly where they need to be and we're not fitting them on the bike with a stock Top two blanks

[00:14:43] A stock

[00:14:44] head to blanks and then just using STEM length to try and dial them in All of those are customizable not allowing people to do which is why we have a race in an all road We have [00:15:00] geometry To determine basically the ride that we want each of these bikes to deliver so we're not allowing customers to say make a gravel bike out of our road bike we're not allowing them to adjust chainstay length Those Those numbers We are We have determined what those are with our fit calculator then when a customer reserves the bike And they walked through geometry with our customer service rep that is dedicated to the bike we look at currently riding if they've had a bike fit A number of different things to determine the best fit for them And so what we can do If someone is writing say a specialized tarmac SL

[00:15:52] in

[00:15:53] 56 centimeter with a one 20 STEM and they really love they fit on it really well but they have say 25 millimeters of spacers under that STEM we can match them exactly to that fit but w what we can do  head to blank that brings it so that they don't have to have any spacers or they can have five millimeters of spacer So you get really that clean pro look


[00:16:20] perfect fit that you're looking for

[00:16:22] Craig Dalton: [00:16:22] Right Yeah

[00:16:23] Neil Shirley: [00:16:23] does that make

[00:16:23] sense

[00:16:24] Craig Dalton: [00:16:24] and it totally translates into the visuals I've seen of the bike There's no [00:16:30] spacers Underneath the STEM on any of those bikes they look super clean And I imagine in talking to some custom frame builders there's always a bit of back and forth That the frame builder will say Hey that's your we can do that but you're going to make a sloppy bike and all you guys have done and said This is the way this part is but there's plenty of ways in which we can really customize it to you Your unique fit needs

[00:16:55] Neil Shirley: [00:16:55] Yeah

[00:16:55] exactly I mean I think if you look if you think about it it's basically the best way to describe what's possible is One millimeter size increments between say a 47 to 63 Send me your bikes So 47 48 49 50 then with within those sizes we can

[00:17:15] We

[00:17:15] can go lower with the head tube We can go higher with the head tube Obviously STEM length within five millimeter increments we can change the stim link so what we do When we come up with the geometry we have comes up We have a thing called the bet fit calculator that Kevin Nelson Arlie lead bike engineer developed

[00:17:36] And

[00:17:37] When we it calculates and spits out Geometries or the best fit So three or four best fit recommendations for the person So that could be top tube Of X centimeters with a with a STEM length of one 10 or could go slightly [00:18:00] shorter top tube and a STEM length of one 15 And then we walk the customer through okay this is We

[00:18:06] allow them to say okay this is what I'd like this is the style I like ultimately though We're finding a few ways to get the the customer in the exact spot They need to be

[00:18:17] Craig Dalton: [00:18:17] That makes sense And speaking of integrations you've got an integrated bar STEM as well as at a seat mask situation going can you talk about the decisions to go that down those routes

[00:18:28] Neil Shirley: [00:18:28] Yeah when

[00:18:29] we looked at the bike and what we could deliver That Being able to do it in house here And the fact that it was custom made for each customer there

[00:18:40] was there was no reason to do this integration and some of the biggest complaints and complaints I personally have had with a one-piece bar STEM Is that if you're buying a stock

[00:18:53] bike oftentimes like that bar STEM is probably not going to fit you Because 56 centimeter Frame that you're buying is probably going to with between a one 10 or a one 20 STEM So unless the bike brand is allowing you to really trade out the bar STEM Stock to something that is it was gonna fit you it's a huge hassle we're taking that factor out We're making we're ensuring that this bike is designed your fit needs And What you achieve without one piece bar STEM one it looks Looks so good Two Eric it's more arrow [00:19:30] Three I personally think it just adds A higher performance field like in the drops you're out of the saddle Like it stiff it feels incredibly fast then one of the one of the last things is and it's not necessarily achieved one-piece bar STEM but it's our internal it's our internal wire and hose routing you don't see any wires or hoses It's a special Integrated front end that we developed we we worked with Chris to develop the headset for it So all the All the wires and hoses go through in through the STEM through a hole in the back of the handlebar And then the hoses and wires are routed special headset and down into the frame and through the forks So it's incredibly clean we will We will This summer we'll be introducing the same system but in a two-piece design so it's our standard a R S C S a R road handlebar with a N V STEM is dedicated to that the front end system

[00:20:34] Craig Dalton: [00:20:34] Okay And going with the seat mass did that allow you some additional ride tuning capabilities

[00:20:40] Neil Shirley: [00:20:40] Exactly one It allowed us to reduce take a little bit of weight out of the frame but also yeah you nailed it You can think about if you had a seat post that goes slides into the frame It's a lot harder to tailor And dial in that ride quality Compared to an [00:21:00] integrated seat mast and what we can achieve with that And again since each bike is made each customer the length of the seat mask and having to trim it and all that stuff wasn't a factor

[00:21:10] So

[00:21:11] there was no reason not to And then the seat mass Topper It's a nice carbon topper That's also made here here in our facility it has 35 millimeters of adjustability There's never going to be an issue where if you change shoes or pedals and your saddle height changes by a centimeter and a half you're going to have plenty of adjustability So that's not going to be an issue only issue could be is

[00:21:36] you

[00:21:37] happen to sell your bike down the road to someone else and there's a Decent height difference So that would be the only issue

[00:21:45] Craig Dalton: [00:21:45] Yeah When I first looked at the bike I always do get a little bit sensitive around seat mass and integrated bar stems for the reasons you've talked about but it is important And you made this point twice to say this is a bike that's being uniquely made for the purchaser And it would almost be a disservice to them to not give them The ultimate bike that fits like a glove

[00:22:09] Neil Shirley: [00:22:09] Yeah Yeah And do you know and that's what we set out with this project Like what is the ultimate bike What are the coolest things that we can do because we're making it here and we're making it for each customer And so that's what the custom road represents like the no hold No holds barred coolest thing that we could design [00:22:30] and manufacturer and then I'd say the lastly kind of along the same point topic is integration can be a point of frustration especially for people that are traveling I travel with my bike a lot and so I want something that's easy to pack And we all know that internal routing and integration is a huge pain when having a pack of bikes So that's why we made the decision

[00:22:57] To

[00:22:57] work with Saigon and we have high end bike bags at $800 retail bike bag That comes with every chassis rolling chassis or complete bike So each one is shipped in this bag And with this bag you don't have to take off

[00:23:13] the ham

[00:23:14] You don't have to take off the bar STEM combo seat topper all you remove or the wheels it's literally a five minute pack job And in most cases unless you're packing this case full of extra stuff going to come in well below the 50 pound weight limit to fly free on Delta and American airlines So really cool solution get around any hassles of traveling with your bike

[00:23:40] Craig Dalton: [00:23:40] That's awesome Early on in the conversation you talked about with your support for builders Providing rolled tubes is that the type of tube set that is integrated into the custom road

[00:23:53] Neil Shirley: [00:23:53] No these are all these are all molded Molded tube sets and how this frame is constructed in the [00:24:00] our ability to do sizes with it So it's nine different pieces that create the frame So you have the top tube with

[00:24:08] the

[00:24:09] Top half of the head tube is one piece down tube with the bottom half of the head tube is another piece And then from there we have a fixture that we created that cuts when we have all the customer's

[00:24:25] exact fit there is program where this tube cutter cuts tubes for the bike at the same time And that's also what Sure For the head tube we determined the head tube length and all that gets cut all these then all these pieces we have a frame jig they go into the frame jig the pieces slide together I don't want to say Like tracks not it's not a lug

[00:24:52] Craig Dalton: [00:24:52] Okay

[00:24:53] Neil Shirley: [00:24:53] But It is like male female fit And then there's a there's an overwrap that that goes on them

[00:25:01] Craig Dalton: [00:25:01] Gotcha in the mold is the mold one size And then that cutting technology cuts them down to the custom dimensions of the purchaser

[00:25:10] Neil Shirley: [00:25:10] Essentially And we do have multiple molds dependent for between the extremes of the biggest size and the smallest size But yes essentially what you're saying

[00:25:19] Craig Dalton: [00:25:19] Fascinating And is that something to your knowledge is that a unique process at envy or have other companies been doing a similar type approach

[00:25:26]Neil Shirley: [00:25:26] I believe it is unique for us because we there's plenty that [00:25:30] have the process that not really showing I think what's really special is how we're able to do it while achieving some of the arrow shapes frame Which is as far as I know hasn't really been done yet

[00:25:43] Craig Dalton: [00:25:43] Yeah that was one of the big questions when Randall and I were talking in the last episode of in the dirt about it we just weren't quite sure how you were pulling off custom dimensions on the tubes

[00:25:54] Neil Shirley: [00:25:54] Yeah so really it's a remarkable process we've already had we've had a couple of media out here seeing it prelaunch we have a couple more that have expressed interest in visiting post-launch so it's It's Yeah I think our engineering team that we have here in house Some really brilliant people And Kevin who was is behind the bike key Even though this is 10 Clinically the first bite for envy as we've been talking about we've worked

[00:26:21]With bike

[00:26:22] builders a lot in the past and we also worked with And designed and manufactured the front end of their Ex triathlon time trial bike And then Kevin before he came over to envy he worked I mean he worked in G T back in their heyday when you know the lotto bikes and building some of the bikes and going over to Perry Bay with the team So he's got great stories and then some time specialized developing the first rebate Even though it's a new it's a new category for us There's definitely a lot of know-how within the building in And how to put together A road [00:27:00] bike

[00:27:00] Craig Dalton: [00:27:00] Yeah exactly And then much like a lot of the other custom offerings out there in the world at the end of the day you get to choose from Looks like a pretty vast selection of paint schemes

[00:27:13] Neil Shirley: [00:27:13] Yeah we brought in a painter a year ago we already had a paint shop here where we paint mountain stems that are made here in our disc rear time-travel wheels And so we brought in this painter and for the last year he's been painting we all have custom painted forks and handlebars Now just trying to keep him busy until we had till we had frames to be feeding through there

[00:27:36] But he

[00:27:36] put together basically his paint shop And so with the help of our design team And they created four different four different paint templates for the frame and then 38 color options and Matt versus gloss as options as well There's mean you can about having a unique bike without even having to spend extra on on extra custom paint or anything which which is an option but anyone that has seen the coverage on our site and some of the different paints that are painted bikes that are coming out like there's man you can do some really cool stuff I was just down in the paint shop this afternoon And seeing like we were doing a bike for Chris King now That's just unbelievable so it's really cool to be able to offer something like that I know aesthetics the paint is not something that

[00:28:30] [00:28:30] That

[00:28:30] doesn't make you any faster but I it's these bikes as we know like have a relationship with your bike and I don't just look at my bikes as a tool and so to be able to have something a little more individual and show some personality I had a storm trooper My bike is mostly all white but I had a storm trooper logo put on the hammer bar STEM because it just reminded me of that All that stuff is really cool When you're talking about a bike that you're going to have for years and years

[00:28:58] Craig Dalton: [00:28:58] Yeah absolutely I mean you're preaching to the choir here I ride a pink bicycle so I know it I know what it means to make your yeah Choose a paint color that makes you happy when you're out there on the roads and trails

[00:29:08] Neil Shirley: [00:29:08] Yep

[00:29:09] Craig Dalton: [00:29:09] That's awesome Neil So how long would one have to wait at this point to get one of these bikes

[00:29:14]Neil Shirley: [00:29:14] So as we as of last Friday we launched As we expected we had a con A considerable number of orders came in So I think we're looking at if someone went on in Went to today You're probably looking at Fall late fall

[00:29:37] Craig Dalton: [00:29:37] Gotcha

[00:29:37] Neil Shirley: [00:29:37] for delivery of a bike seems under normal circumstances that would be a really long time

[00:29:43] But

[00:29:43]In COVID reality right now it might not seem that far off when a lot of the a lot of the big bike brands are not able to deliver until 20 22 in a lot of cases it's it is a long time Some of the first people that were able to get in line No [00:30:00] they're going to have bikes delivered to them next to as soon as April

[00:30:03] Craig Dalton: [00:30:03] Nice as you mentioned with COVID It might take you just as long to get a group of these days

[00:30:09] Neil Shirley: [00:30:09] No and that's that's a big factor for us as as well there's If people those that are choosing the chassis are rolling chassis only option they're likely to get the bike a lot quicker And source their own Shimano or saran parts elsewhere

[00:30:25] Craig Dalton: [00:30:25] Yeah exactly I've talked to a lot of builders who have a lot of frustration in the current state of affairs because they just can't move full bikes out the door which is quite a shame

[00:30:34]Neil Shirley: [00:30:34] It isn't and it's I really feel for a lot of the a lot of the brands out there because the business we're in a really interesting situation where there is Is much business the taking it's really up to you how well you do and many of them have their hands tied right now because they literally their order books are so full they don't have parts or they don't have frame sets from their vendors or any of that we in the bike industry we have our ups and downs So when when the business is there you want to be able to capitalize it on it and not to be able to do that is really really sad

[00:31:13] Craig Dalton: [00:31:13] Yeah no doubt about that Good news is I think we are looking forward We're trending towards people getting vaccinated We're trending towards some of these events happening hopefully by the time like a BWR San Diego runs around rolls around We'll start to see some of these envy custom [00:31:30] road with the all road geometry racing those types of events

[00:31:34] Neil Shirley: [00:31:34] know I'll be out there with mine We're going to have They'll there'll be a handful of them out there I sure hope I'll Yeah I can't wait to go test mine in the some of the single track the lemon twist in Bergen Some of those fun sections

[00:31:49] Craig Dalton: [00:31:49] Yeah that's awesome As we were talking about offline I think for me the gravel world has this spectrum from Road plus which is this 35 millimeter kind of size tire all the way on the other extreme to the bike packing side So it's thrilling to see brands continue to push the limits on both sides because I think depending on where you live in the country Yeah either or is going to make sense for you depending on your local terrain

[00:32:14] Neil Shirley: [00:32:14] Yeah

[00:32:14]That's totally true I Wasatch mountains here just out our back door here in Utah so Rocky and rugged like I would never Even a 700 by 40 is you're under biking most of the time like at six 50 B and 47 to 50 Mill tires way to go But know like we were talking about in Lincoln Nebraska when I did gravel worlds out there I raced a 32 C tire And so it really Jew is geographically dependent on terrain is definitely for BWR San Diego I'll happily run a 32 C and in my custom road and it's going to be a It's going to be an awesome bike And then my as a gravel guy here and a [00:33:00] number of us hearing Envy that that ride gravel consistently we're

[00:33:04] pushing for that next That next version that can fit some big tires in there I think we need to really just understand The demand that's that we have for for the custom road and then understand how we can scale up and be able to Keep up with the demand and then add hopefully add a gravel version as well

[00:33:24] Craig Dalton: [00:33:24] That makes a ton of sense I mean envy has been such a great supporter of the gravel community as I said before So I'm sure that Mike will come which is why it was important to have this conversation today

[00:33:34] Neil Shirley: [00:33:34] Yeah

[00:33:35] Craig Dalton: [00:33:35] Cool Neil thank you so much for making time today I really appreciate it

[00:33:39] Neil Shirley: [00:33:39] Yeah Thank you Craig And so it's fun to talk about It's it's something that we've been living the last two and a half years, so to be able to launch the bike and start telling people about it has been so exciting.


[00:33:51]Craig Dalton: [00:33:51] That's it for this week's episode of the gravel ride podcast. Big, thanks to Neil for coming on and talking about the NV custom road project. It's really exciting to see both sides of the sport. Continue to innovate. I tell you, it looks like one fast machine. I'll put a link in the show notes to where you can find out more information about the NV custom road bike.

[00:34:13]Definitely check out some of the custom paint jobs that neil was mentioning truly beautiful bikes.

[00:34:18] If you've made it this far on the show, I hope that you're already a subscriber, but if not, make sure to hit that subscribe button. We put out episodes just about every week and we've got about a [00:34:30] hundred in the back catalog for you to peruse.

[00:34:32]Until next time here's the finding some dirt onto your wheels.