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Jun 29, 2021

Interviews on-site at the 2021 ENVE Builder Round Up and Grodeo. We grab interviews with custom builders: Falconer, Holland, Inglis, Mosaic, No.22, Pine Cycles, Sage, Salt Air, Sycip and Wies.

Episode presented by ENVE Composites 

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Automated Transcription (please excuse the typos)

ENVE Builder Mash Up Episode

Craig Dalton: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to a special edition of the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. 

[00:00:07]I'm releasing this week's podcast, just on the heels of returning home from Ogden, Utah. I was visiting this week. Sponsor ENVE composites.

[00:00:16]ENVE was hosting their annual builder Roundup showcase. As well as a new event called Grodeo 

[00:00:22]The builder Roundup is a who's who of ENVE partners from around the world. I saw a ton of gravel and adventure bikes. A few mountain bikes, fat bike. An electric bike and all sorts of amazing things.  

[00:00:37]The words you'll hear in this podcast will be challenged to really express. How truly unique and gorgeous and impressive. The craftsmanship on all these bikes were. I encourage you to seek out these pictures 

[00:00:50] On the web on Instagram of posts, some on my account. But really look at the details of these bikes because it's clear these craftsmen are exceptional. At their work. I wanted to get you an opportunity to hear from some of the craftsmen in their own words. So I did some mini interviews about a dozen of them that I've cobbled together in this episode. 

[00:01:14] You'll notice some variation in the audio, as some of the interviews were held in a room while others were on the show floor. But i really wanted you to hear from the builders themselves so i'm just going to let them fly and hopefully any ups and downs in the audios will be okay when you walk away from the totality of this episode

[00:01:34]Before we begin just a couple more words about our sponsor and V composites. I got to do a full factory tour while I was out there to see. The rim manufacturing, handlebars. He posts. And also the full frame set from ENVE,  that we talked about with Neil Shirley a few episodes ago.

[00:01:53]A couple of things to share about that tour. That really impressed me. First of all, all the manufacturing is done in house. 

[00:02:02]We got to see the raw rolls of carbon fiber come in the templates in which those rolls and carbon fiber are cut. And laid into molds to create the various products that you know so well.

[00:02:12]We also got to see the elaborate in-house testing labs. That they run and the various machines that they torture these products with to make sure they. Obtain the standards that ENVE is known for around the world.  

[00:02:26]From my vantage point, these machines absolutely abused the products. We saw a frame being torked to know, and we saw spokes being ripped out through rim holes. We saw the impact test machine for rims. It was really impressive. And clearly when NV gets some feedback from the road, someone saying, I was just riding along, they can safely say, there's no way you were just riding along with that impact. You must have been hit by a truck because we know our products are tested to such an extreme standard. So that was really cool. 

[00:03:03] I am a sucker for U S manufacturing. So I was super geeked out and stoked to see. Not only all the machinery but all the craftsmen and women that were operating in ogden utah and just the passion that they have as a company for creating exceptional products in the marketplace.

[00:03:22]After the builder Roundup on Friday was Saturday mornings Grodeo event. It was a 200 Ryder event and my first mass participation event. Since the pandemic began. So it was very excited to toe the line. But quite nervous. The stated course had over 8,500 feet of climbing. And I believe was supposed to be clocked at around 85 miles. 

[00:03:46] I had a little ride in from the hotel. So at the end of the day, I rode a hundred miles. Did that 8,500 feet of climbing. 

[00:03:54]My total ride time was just over eight hours and 30 minutes. So it was a huge day out on the bike for me. Hats off to Neil Shirley and anybody else who had a hand in course design. It was really a showcase of the area. We had some beautiful canyon road rides. Single track. Tough Rocky fire road, climbs and descents. 

[00:04:16] Very beautiful surrounding just when you thought you were done Neil through a couple of loops on the way back into town. On some interesting single track that Ogden had to offer. It was really one of those courses that in my opinion, tested , every element of you as a gravel rider. 

[00:04:35]Sarah was hard, beautiful and challenging. A perfect gravel course.  

[00:04:40]With all that said, let's jump right into my dozen mini interviews. They're going to jump around a bit. So just follow along, you'll catch up. Each builder introduces themselves and their brand. And gives a little bit of an overview of the bikes they brought to the Roundup. I've also got four more long form interviews coming up. 

[00:04:59] Off the top of my head Breadwinner Cycles, Scarab out of Columbia. Spooky and most likely Sage titanium. So keep an eye out in your feed for those as well.  Let's dive right in All right. Can you tell me your name and the brand? 

[00:05:14] Cole Bennett: [00:05:14] My name is Cole Bennett and I run Weis manufacturing. 

[00:05:17] Craig Dalton: [00:05:17] And where are you located? 

[00:05:19] Cole Bennett: [00:05:19] In Brooklyn? New York.

[00:05:20]Craig Dalton: [00:05:20] So tell me about this very special bike here at the end. ENVE Builder a Roundup. 

[00:05:23]Cole Bennett: [00:05:23] This is our gravel SL model. It's a 7,000 series aluminum construction and with a carbon seat mast.

[00:05:33]There's like a gravel racer that we build. It's got. A lot of details. If you look closely pretty much everything we don't use any off the shelf parts. So all our dropouts bottom bracket tattoos, we design and see have CNC made for us. And a lot of our tubing profiles are also custom. So yeah, I don't know.

[00:05:53] It's been a lot of work went into this thing. 

[00:05:55] Craig Dalton: [00:05:55] It's hard to over the microphone. Describe the backend of this bike. Can you try to do it some justice? 

[00:06:02] Cole Bennett: [00:06:02] So basically all of our frames have an asymmetrical rear ends. This is a trickle-down from our first frame model, which is a racing track racing bikes.

[00:06:11]So the asymmetrical rear end is a stiffer driver's side. It's bigger diameter, tubing, and a drop stay. Just like you'd see in a lot of race bikes, but they do that on both sides. So yeah, the gravel bike also has that. 

[00:06:26] Craig Dalton: [00:06:26] What is the process look like for a customer wanting to get one of these. 

[00:06:29]Cole Bennett: [00:06:29] Right now it's I've actually closed the orders.

[00:06:32] So the process right now is get on the mailing list and wait for us to release some frame slots. But basically the way the process goes is that they're working with me. It's a small operation, it's me. And one other person that's helping me. And yeah, from start to finish, it's a customer experience is a big thing for me.

[00:06:50] So from start to finish, I'm with the customer. Talking through custom paint, custom geo, everything soup to nuts. 

[00:06:58] Craig Dalton: [00:06:58] And are you in that discussion, if they come to you and say, Hey, I want a six 50 by 50 millimeter, tired versus somebody who wants more of a road plus bike. Do you make modifications?


[00:07:09]Cole Bennett: [00:07:09] I've actually started to put my foot down a bit on that kind of stuff.

[00:07:12]Because basically what I tell customers is look, we put a lot of R and D into figuring out tire clearances, everything that's good. So let's not alter the basic platform of the model, but we're happy to do custom geo to really dial in your fit. But if you want to grab a bike, we have a gravel model.

[00:07:31] If you want a road bike, we have a couple of road models and so on. 

[00:07:34] Craig Dalton: [00:07:34] Gotcha. Cool. What's an absolutely stunning bike that you've 

[00:07:37] brought here. So the congrats. 

[00:07:39] Cole Bennett: [00:07:39] Thank you. Thank you.



[00:07:41] Cameron Falconer: [00:07:41] Hey, my name is Cameron falconer, my company falconer cycles, and I'm in Quincy, California. Good. Save there, here at the ENVE builder Roundup before the party starts I make custom TIG welded, steel bikes, and most of what I make is pretty simple and pretty straightforward.

[00:07:59]Definitely function. The bike I'm showing here today is an odd one. It's a coaster brake 700 by 50 millimeter flat bar bike. So what is it? Well, I don't know. It's meant to be a tribute to pneumatic tire safety bicycles of the 1819. And these were the bikes that were the first spikes that would appear to us as modern cyclists with pneumatic tires and equally sized wheels and a chamber.

[00:08:28] Yeah. And the visual cue is the really tall head tube and the one back bars and the sloping top tube, you see, you saw this in the 1890s and that sort of era, and I've always liked that sort of aesthetic. And finally decided to make something. So it is the couple of things that are interesting on it.

[00:08:47]The front hub is a Paul from Chico, California, but I had to make an axle for it to make it work with the through axle. And the front rack is an idea I had and it's made from two curved pieces of titanium sheet metal welded together, and the curves reinforce each other. So it creates rigid. It's designed to hold something pretty small and light like a sleeping bag.

[00:09:10] And then the rear hub is an American made Bendix from the fifties. You still can't give this finer a Custer brake hub. So thanks for listening.

[00:09:19]Inglis Cycles

[00:09:19]Curtis Inglis: [00:09:19] Curtis Ingliss from Napa, California. I build under retro tech in Inglis cycles. What I brought to the NV open house this year is a retro tech fund Durham in titanium. So we have been doing over the years, we've made titanium bikes, a couple of different versions but.

[00:09:36] Long-term and we've always just stuck with steel. So we're attempting to play with Ty again. And we were working with simple up in Portland, so I do all the bending so far, the two, two batches we've done. I've went up there and helped build them as well. But I do all the bending in house in California and then drag everything up there and then we build them at the simple factory.

[00:09:54] So 

[00:09:55] Craig Dalton: [00:09:55] is there anything specific about the geometry of this bike? 

[00:09:58]Curtis Inglis: [00:09:58] This is pretty standard funder. So long front end slack head angle fairly short chain stays, but not you know, crazy short. The idea is trying to like, not make, I'm not racing towards the most extreme geometry, you know, the slackest head angle and all that.

[00:10:11] I still want a bike that can be written across country. And handled everything pretty decently but not definitely not shooting for like the most extreme, you know, downhill hard tail bike. I'm looking for a bike that's like fun to ride uphill and down. 

[00:10:25] Craig Dalton: [00:10:25] And have you seen a difference, like when you're riding your steel funder versus this difference in the way it feels that you might advise customers to think of?

[00:10:33] Curtis Inglis: [00:10:33] That's a great question. I haven't actually written a mountain bike type in titanium in my gravel. I have a steel one and a Taiwan. And other than being a slight hair lighter, I both red green, or I don't know. I enjoy both. The geometry has changed a little bit on the new bike. So it's more, I can't tell you.

[00:10:54] I haven't tried the mountain bike yet. So 

[00:10:56] Craig Dalton: [00:10:56] I'm sure for most people, there's just a certain allure of titanium that makes it a dream material to eventually get 

[00:11:01] Curtis Inglis: [00:11:01] to. And why I built myself when I built six customer's bikes and the seventh bike was mine, and I had just built myself one so that I could have this answer.

[00:11:09] I just can't keep, I can't, I never feel comfortable making something that I haven't tried. Usually when I try something new in geometry or whatever, it's on myself or a good friend, so I can get good feedback from them. And on these, I wanted to make sure that like I was the one trying it out and seeing how they rode and if there was going to be tweaks that I needed to do for different sized people and that sort of stuff.

[00:11:28] Perfect. Thanks 

[00:11:29] Craig Dalton: [00:11:29] for the overview. Yeah.

[00:11:30]Sycip Cycles

[00:11:30]Jeremy Sycip: [00:11:30] Hi, my name's Jeremy Sycip with Sycip designs. I'm up in Santa Rosa, California. And this year for the ENVE show, I brought a it is a, an electric assist mountain bike, but using an ENVE har rigid fork. But it's mainly the main purpose of this bike is to carry. Kind of whatever you need your needs are.

[00:11:49] And in this case I have a barbecue in one of these bags and and it's the hall drinks and some to cook with, to trails. And that's what the purpose of this bike is. And it's basically our carry all electric assist, bike it to help, you know, to help you peddle up Hills and stuff, because it's going to be fully loaded.

[00:12:05] Craig Dalton: [00:12:05] Nice. And you've so you've got the, is it the ENVE adventure fork on the front? 

[00:12:08] Jeremy Sycip: [00:12:08] This is not, this is their mountain. Because it's the built, the frame is built around mountain bike, geometry. And so at 29 or wheels and it fits up to a 2.6 tire. Yeah, so it's just one of those just showing off that I can do custom frames and they build all different kinds.

[00:12:19] So this is just one of 

[00:12:20] Craig Dalton: [00:12:20] them. Can you tell us a little bit about the brand and how long you've been doing it? 

[00:12:24] Jeremy Sycip: [00:12:24] So the brand was started my brother and I started the company back in 1992 and we were in in San Francisco area. Until 2001, and then recently, or not recently, 2001, we moved to Santa Rosa, California.

[00:12:37] So it's next year it's going to be our 30th year anniversary. So that's going on for awhile. Okay. 

[00:12:42] Craig Dalton: [00:12:42] Amazing. And what type of frame materials are you usually using? 

[00:12:45] Jeremy Sycip: [00:12:45] So these days I've actually offered titanium recently the last few years. So steel aluminum and titanium and building any kind of custom bike, basically tandems rode mountain bikes.

[00:12:55] Gravel bikes. You know, I have my commuter line, which I call them my Java boy, Java girl blind. And then these are the one I brought here to S E bike is basically like an like a specialty bike, custom bike lane where it can do whatever people want, basically 

[00:13:08] Craig Dalton: [00:13:08] on the gravel bikes. Are they always a hundred percent custom?

[00:13:11] And how do you what's that process look like when you're working with the custom.

[00:13:14]Jeremy Sycip: [00:13:14] Yeah. So all the bikes these days are all custom. So I work with an individual person, one at a time. We do a full fitting if they're near our area or they send me their body measurements. And I kind of work from that and design a frame around what their needs are, you know, tire size components.

[00:13:30]And then we come up with a bike, CAD drawing and you know, when they find it, when they okay, it, the customer okays, then it looks to be what the. And that's designed around their body measurements. And then that's how the build actually starts to happen at that point. 

[00:13:44] Craig Dalton: [00:13:44] Can you tell me about one of the signature features on the bike that I've seen on?

[00:13:48] I think is it all your bikes that I see this on? Yeah. 

[00:13:50] Jeremy Sycip: [00:13:50] So the wish, well, basically it's a wishbone stay that I do. And and I use pennies to cap off the tubes. So that started back in the nineties, like early mid nineties, maybe. I think I was trying to get I used to co cap them with steel caps that I used to make.

[00:14:06] And then I realized that Penny's fit over there and it cost a penny each. So it was a lot cheaper than having them fabricated somewhere or a machine shop to make those caps. So that's what started that. And and so the gravel and cross bikes, if the customer wants a wishbone stay, I use dimes to cap off the tubes because there are 16 mil stays and the mountain bikes use a 19 mills day, which has a penny size.

[00:14:26] Cap that go on there. So you don't feel it. Our mountain bike, it's a 2 cent rebate and the gravel vice Guetta and the across vice get a 20 cent rebate. So you get some money back at dam, the only frame builder that offers money back. When you buy frame,

[00:14:38]Craig Dalton: [00:14:38] you heard it here first. If someone's looking to order a gravel bike, w what kind of turnaround time do you have for custom bikes?

[00:14:43] Jeremy Sycip: [00:14:43] So right now it's about four to five months, a little longer for titanium. And then if it's a custom paint job, it also takes a little longer, but most of the bikes get a one color powder coat. Yeah. 

[00:14:53] Craig Dalton: [00:14:53] Perfect. Thanks Jeremy. Yeah.


Dave Rosen: [00:14:55] So I'm Dave and my brand is Sage titanium. Okay. 

[00:14:58] Craig Dalton: [00:14:58] We're at the eENVEthe builder, Roundup wanting to tell the listener about what we've got in front of us. 

[00:15:03] Dave Rosen: [00:15:03] So the bike we have in front of us is our storm king gravel bike. This is the, do it all quiver killer monster gravel race, bike that you can also take adventure, bike, packing stuff on kind of thing.

[00:15:16] Like it's just, it does it all. It was designed around 700 by 50 millimeter tires. It's a pretty aggressive geometry in general, but the reality is every bike is built custom one at a time for each individual customer. So we can actually customize the geometry to the individual. So if somebody really wants a storm king to be more relaxed for more loaded touring.

[00:15:39] Sure. No problem. But the general nature of the bike itself is more race oriented kind of thing. And yeah, so that's the storm king for where we're at. and let's, 

[00:15:50] Craig Dalton: [00:15:50] let's talk about the frame material and what you guys typically work with. 

[00:15:53]Dave Rosen: [00:15:53] All of our bikes, you know, a hundred percent USA made the storm king in particular, we make in our shop in house in Portland we only use titanium three to five, you know, us source.

[00:16:03]Straight gauge across the board for the storm king no, no budding or anything like that. But of course, if a customer has a request, we're more than happy to accommodate. And you know, the frame itself has a variety of finishes that we can offer as well. So generally really we offer a brushed finish with maybe standard decals as a easy way to just get you out the door. But we do from a custom finish standpoint, we can offer everything from paint to Sarah coat, to anodize the bead blast to, you know, mass graphics like across the board.

[00:16:36] And so the show bike we have. Is a combination of just about everything we do. So we've actually got cerakote finish fading to a bead blast with raw graphics, raw titanium, mixed in and anodized logos on top of it. So it's really it's four different finishes on one frame, which is insane, but it came out 

[00:16:56] great 

[00:16:57] Craig Dalton: [00:16:57] though.

[00:16:57] Yeah. It's very visually interesting. It's not over the top, but you can see when you get up close. The level of detail and the changing techniques that you've used it to the finish the bike. 

[00:17:08] Yeah. Yeah, 

[00:17:09] Dave Rosen: [00:17:09] no, it's are our pain or just outdid himself. You know, I, the thing I love about the fade for example is that it actually is a true fade when you actually get close up on the bike.

[00:17:19] I've seen a lot of fades where it's a much harder edge and this just, it blends so naturally kind of thing. It's just, it's great. And then just being able to match in the Sarah. We actually cerakote all of the NV components so we can cerakote carbon, which is a bit unusual that it's not in order to cerakote carbon in order to cerakote something, you actually have to cure it at, I think it's 350 or 360 degrees and carbon doesn't like being heated up.

[00:17:44] So our paint shop has figured out a way to, to actually cerakote the carbon and. And it's all good to go. And we've been Sarah coding, customer bikes for a while now, forks, bars, stems, everything, and everything's been great. So we were, we went over the top with this one with just really just making the graphics 

[00:18:01] Craig Dalton: [00:18:01] pop on it.

[00:18:02] Well, you definitely got to show up with your, a game here at the builder Roundup seriously. 

[00:18:06] Dave Rosen: [00:18:06] I mean, it's like the level of bikes around here. You can't come slacking off to this show. It is full game on it's a game or go home. So 

[00:18:14] Craig Dalton: [00:18:14] thanks for the overview, Dave. 

[00:18:15] Dave Rosen: [00:18:15] Thanks. Appreciate it.


[00:18:17]Craig Dalton: [00:18:17] All right. Can you introduce yourself and the brand you're representing today? 

[00:18:20] Tony: [00:18:20] My name is Tony Bren Dottie, and I work with number 22 titanium bicycles out of Johnstown New York. 

[00:18:27] Craig Dalton: [00:18:27] And tell me about the break you've brought to the ENVE builder 

[00:18:29] Tony: [00:18:29] Roundup. So this is our titanium all road bike called the great divide disc.

[00:18:36] What makes this particular one unique is the fact that we used NVS integrated front end. So there. One piece bar in stem and headset that allows the brake lines to be run internally through the head tube and steer tube so that all the lines are hidden inside the handle bar as well. Yeah, that gives 

[00:18:56] Craig Dalton: [00:18:56] it a very kind of striking and unusual look when you eliminate all the cables from the front end of the bike, 

[00:19:03] Tony: [00:19:03] really leading into that, making it look different.

[00:19:06] We also adopted the use of cerakote on this particular one. So this is actually called Stormtrooper white cerakote. And we also did our, what we're really known for is our anodizing finish. And this is gold. Ano 

[00:19:23]Craig Dalton: [00:19:23] Can you describe what serotonin that finish 

[00:19:25] Tony: [00:19:25] is? So Sarah coat is a ceramic coating that goes over the tubing in contrary wet paint is a very similar process, but in its makeup, it is entirely.

[00:19:40] This is durable. It's incredibly thin. It also allows us to do different things that wet paint doesn't do, like being able to put it in places that are a bit more flexible because paint can't flex the same way. A lot of cerakote coatings. Can 

[00:19:58]Craig Dalton: [00:19:58] I can't let you go without asking about these fenders on this bike, 

[00:20:02] Tony: [00:20:02] the titanium vendors are definitely unique.

[00:20:05] They really bring this bike together. They're full titanium. We even down to the package of making the small little brackets and bolts that attach it to the bike, those are all titanium. And those that we could analyze we did. 

[00:20:18] Craig Dalton: [00:20:18] Now this model is erode plus model. Can you talk about the gravel models that you have in the number 22 

[00:20:23] Tony: [00:20:23] lineup?

[00:20:24] So the gravel models that are a bit more, you know, big tire oriented, like 700 by 40 fives, we've got the drifter and the drifter. Drifter X is a bit more race oriented, a little bit more aggressive geometry. It also has a tapered head tube and a titanium ISP. So it's very visually striking for those that are looking for a little bit more of an adventure style, gravel bike, the standard drifter uses a traditional seatpost, which a lot of people like, because some end up using dropper posts as well as a slight.

[00:20:58] More relaxed geometry. So it's more adventure based your bike packing things where people like to get a little bit more out in the woods and 

[00:21:07] Craig Dalton: [00:21:07] for a customer looking to get a number 22 bike, how long do they 

[00:21:11] Tony: [00:21:11] need to wait? So at the moment, we're at 22 weeks lead time and that's a moving target. We have been able to get all the parts that we need for complete bikes, but we still need to make the frames.

[00:21:21]Our sales have been increasing. Outpacing what we can manufacturer, but that's a good problem to have. 

[00:21:29] Craig Dalton: [00:21:29] Absolutely. And the manufacturing is in-house in 

[00:21:31] Tony: [00:21:31] New York, it's all done in Johnstown, New York. So basically halfway between Montreal and New York city. 

[00:21:39] Craig Dalton: [00:21:39] And w is the customer buying from a stock selection of frame sizes or are you a custom 

[00:21:43] Tony: [00:21:43] shop?

[00:21:44] We do both. We have the standard sizes and stock options, but we also do custom options and custom could be down to. You know, getting the fit details from a customer and the overall, even just the visual appearance could look better with a different size head tube, for example, or if it's somebody who is a slightly larger writer, we can change certain tube sizes to make it stiffer or ride within what we expect of that frame that we designed.

[00:22:12] Craig Dalton: [00:22:12] Awesome. Thanks for that overview, 

[00:22:13] Tony: [00:22:13] Tony. No worries. Anytime.


[00:22:16]Craig Dalton: [00:22:16] All right. Can you tell me your name and the brand? 

[00:22:18] Carl Strong: [00:22:18] Yeah. My name is Carl Strong and the brand is pursuit cycles more out of Bozeman, Montana. I've known for titanium bikes, strong frames, but I've recently started a company called pursuit and we do custom modular monocoque carbon fiber frames that we make entirely in house in Bozeman, Montana.

[00:22:37] Nice. 

[00:22:37] Craig Dalton: [00:22:37] And this particular gravel bike that's in front of us. What are some of the attributes? 

[00:22:41] Carl Strong: [00:22:41] Well, we call it an all road because the max, our size is a 40 on a 700 wheel or a 50 on a six 50. So it's a little more towards the road end of the spectrum versus something that might go more into the adventure.

[00:22:53] And so it does, it's a perfect race bike for something like Unbound gravel. I'm riding it here on mountain bike rides, like crazy. And it's performing flawlessly. We're real excited about that, but some of the attributes are, is custom sized. We can tweak the geometry. It's got we do custom lamps, custom paint, custom parts picks the features that we're most excited about are we have the internal bearings on a tapered head too.

[00:23:18] We've chosen to bond in a titanium threaded bottom bracket. It's a T 47. So there's no squeaking or pressing issues that you get with a lot of carbon frames. For the same reason, we bonded in a mandrill wound seat tube. So you have a perfect fit for your post. We use an external clamp, so you there's no fussing around or fiddling with a saddle or the posting put we do.

[00:23:40]Compression, molded dropouts, which allows us to machine the brake for a perfect brake alignment brake machine, the brake surface. And then we bond in titanium axle guides so that there's no wear and tear on the on the dropouts. When you put your wheel in and out, we've also sandwiched that drilling.

[00:23:58] Between the hub and the dropout, so that it stiffens up the rear derail your hanger, which gives you better performance with electronic shifting, because that puts a lot of force on. So what is the customer 

[00:24:11] Craig Dalton: [00:24:11] journey look like when they call you up to order a bike like this? 

[00:24:14] Carl Strong: [00:24:14] Well, they start by placing a deposit that puts them in the queue and it kicks off what we call our design.

[00:24:20] And so the first thing we do with our customers is we figure out what method we want to use to determine their fit profile. Do you have one, do you have a fitter you like to work with that can provide us with one or do you want us to do it once we need to figure out which one of those we're going to do?

[00:24:36] We do it. We generate a fit profile. And from that I'll draft them out a schematic of a bike with their fit profile. So that we can discuss all of the little nuances of their fit, the way it integrates with the bike, their priorities, and and desires. Once we get the fit nail and the geometry nailed, we talk about layup, which is going to determine the way the bike feels.

[00:24:59] And then we moved from there to the finish. That's a big thing. We have a lot of finish off. We have design services. They can choose to go with it. They want something that's custom made by our professional graphic designer specifically for them. And then after that we do the whole parts pick and then build it delivery time is usually when you can get parts about three months from start to finish, if they're quick on their decision to make.

[00:25:24] And we try not to speed anybody up in the process. We want them to work at a comfortable rate of speed, making their decisions, not feeling under pressure. And we want to make sure that they're confident that when they do finally sign the, okay, they know exactly what they're going to get and it performs exactly as they expect.

[00:25:43] Perfect. Well, this is a 

[00:25:44] Craig Dalton: [00:25:44] gorgeous looking by. Congratulations. Thank 

[00:25:45] Carl Strong: [00:25:45] you very much. Yeah. Appreciate it.


Pine Cycles

Craig Dalton: [00:25:48] Can I just get your name and your brand? 

[00:25:49] Kevin Mcclelland: [00:25:49] Yeah, my name's Kevin McClellan. My brand is pine cycles. 

[00:25:52] Craig Dalton: [00:25:52] I hadn't heard of pine cycles before brand new, right. 

[00:25:55] Kevin Mcclelland: [00:25:55] We are a new brand launching today at the MV builder Roundup. 

[00:25:58] Craig Dalton: [00:25:58] Yep.

[00:25:59] That's awesome. Tell me about the bike we just looked at. 

[00:26:01] Kevin Mcclelland: [00:26:01] So this bike is our attempt to make the most versatile bike that we possibly. Some of the unique design features of it is it has a custom dropout that has unique inserts that you can interchange depending on how you want to ride the bike. So the insert on the bike is 12 by 1 42 flat Mount for disc brake use.

[00:26:21] And then we also have a standard QR dropout for if you want to run the bike with rim brakes, and then you can swap the fork or attract dropout if you want to run single speed or fixed gear. Not only that, but the bike also fits three separate tires. So it fits 700 by 35, 6 50 by 47. That's on the bike here and then 26 by 2.3.

[00:26:42] And those all work together really well because they're all roughly the exact same outer diameter. So the geo is not changed. It's not compromised when you change over those wheel sizes. Amazing. 

[00:26:51] Craig Dalton: [00:26:51] So all the way out to a 2.3 is that we said, yep, incredible. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have gotten that.

[00:26:56] Just looking visually at the rear end of the bike. That's pretty impressive. Feat. 

[00:27:00] Kevin Mcclelland: [00:27:00] Yeah. It's I mean, because the title. You know, that is a little bit smaller size as the chain stay in seat, state tapers. It allows for more clearance with the same sort of chain state length. And it's a pretty short chain states of four 18 mill chain state.

[00:27:12]So very much should sporty road geometry riding bike, and then 

[00:27:16] Craig Dalton: [00:27:16] on the front end of the bike, which ENVE fork are you rocking? 

[00:27:19] Kevin Mcclelland: [00:27:19] We're actually running an allied all road dysphoric made in the USA. And the reason that we do that is. Meets the exact geometry of the whiskey long reach rim brake fork.

[00:27:29]It's a 3 75 mil, so that those two forks can interchange with the frame for when you want to run it rim, brake, or disc brake. 

[00:27:37] Craig Dalton: [00:27:37] I don't think I asked you about the frame material you've chosen for the 

[00:27:39] Kevin Mcclelland: [00:27:39] spike. So it's a steel frame it's made out of Columbus zona tubing the entire frame, every single every single tube is Columbus donut.

[00:27:48] Craig Dalton: [00:27:48] Nice. And what type of, you know, if you were advising the listener as terms of the ride quality of the bike, that, that type of tubes that delivers, how would you describe it? 

[00:27:56] Kevin Mcclelland: [00:27:56] Yeah I mean, zona is slightly on the lower end within Columbus's line. So a lot of the bikes that you'll see in the show are going to have a life or spirit, which are really nice, really lightweight tube sets.

[00:28:09] So ours is a little bit more budget. But still provides that really amazing steel ride quality. It just may be a slight bit heavier than some of these really nice steel bikes that are, and you guys are 

[00:28:19] Craig Dalton: [00:28:19] based in salt lake city, Utah. Yup. Exactly. Nice. Yeah. Cool. Well, Kevin, thanks for the overview.

[00:28:24] I appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you, sir. Yeah. Congrats on that. Great looking bike. I appreciate it.


[00:28:29]Cool. Let's start off. Why don't you give me your name and the brand you're representing? 

[00:28:33] Zack Spear: [00:28:33] My name is Zach Spear. I'm at mosaic. We're in Boulder. We make titanium bikes. We do maybe one steel road bike a year, but everything else is yeah. Straight titanium. We're on track to do maybe mate, we're crossing our fingers, hoping for 200, 250, maybe 2 75 frames.

[00:28:52] Craig Dalton: [00:28:52] That's amazing because every one of them, ones that I've seen come out of the mosaic shop is super special and unique, at least aesthetically. 

[00:28:59] Zack Spear: [00:28:59] Yeah. It's it's good. I think so, too. I'm setting up the fixture for each and every frame we do. And usually I'm talking with mark trying to get a picture of who we're doing this bike for, and he's always got a cool story of you know, this person may have hurt their back or this person's like a big crit racer, six foot six rower from Stanford.

[00:29:15] He needs big tubes. He's putting down big Watts. So we're getting there. You know, we're making frames for people. It's cool. I love 

[00:29:21] Craig Dalton: [00:29:21] that feeling. She started on that thread. I always like to ask the question, like what's that customer journey look like for someone who picks up the phone and gets in contact with mosaic?

[00:29:30]Zack Spear: [00:29:30] Typically we like, we, like when our bike shops are putting the frames out cause they can we're starting to get a big influx of orders and it helps when our bike shops can do some of that upfront work for us and figure out how the Bill's gonna look. What cranks are we using? What tires of this guy want.

[00:29:45] And then yeah, mark a whip up a geo he'll start talking paint with the customer. And then when it comes into my hands, we have a total idea of exactly how this bike's going to look. What kind of pain we're going to do. Head badge is going to be mirror, finished everything. Then I build it. Aaron welds it.

[00:30:01] We QC it. Make sure it fits all the everything's right. It's to spec. And then we send it over to paint. And that's when you. The moneymaker paying jobs. 

[00:30:10] Craig Dalton: [00:30:10] What does that what does that look like from a timeframe perspective? I know it varies all over the place, but right now ask 

[00:30:15] Zack Spear: [00:30:15] me that I'm not at Liberty.

[00:30:17] No we're slammed right now. I think for me personally, I'm doing, I average about one and a quarter frames per day. And I'll try to do big batches of prep work and then batches of frames and One in a quarter. So like I'll do two frames a day for a week and then I'll start prepping frames the next week.

[00:30:35] But that's about my timeline. 

[00:30:36] Craig Dalton: [00:30:36] Gotcha. And tell me about the beautiful bike you've brought to the end of the 

[00:30:39] Zack Spear: [00:30:39] build around, up. Yeah. This guy named Charlie in Chicago, he went through Vela Smith. They put you tap in V on it and it's a GT 1 45. He's got some oversize tubes on it. He wants to drive some Watson to that frame.

[00:30:54] So he's got a. 19 millimeter see stays. He's got a 44 millimeter down to a 34, 9 seat too. It's going to be good and stiff for him. If it's a 45 millimeter tire, pretty slam geo it's going to handle pretty snappy. It's like almost like a gravel crit bike, so you can really shred some dirt with, and he wanted some green in there.

[00:31:14] He was talking with mark and mark was thinking, man, let's do a Tri-Faith for this. And we made it like a mango Tri-Faith and. Before it went to paint. Mark got the idea of do let's throw some basketball sparkle in there. And when you see that thing in the sun has got there's some purples in some greens in, in the orange part of the Tri-Faith.

[00:31:33] It's beautiful. 

[00:31:34] Craig Dalton: [00:31:34] Yeah. It does really pop as a show bike. It's gorgeous. And how cool is it that's an actual customer bike that's going to be delivered presumably weeks after the 

[00:31:41] Zack Spear: [00:31:41] show. It's a, I think it's really cool. I mean, I've never been at mosaic when we've purposely built a show. W everything we're doing is customer bikes.

[00:31:50] And it's cool that our customer bike is a show bike and vice versa. You know, we're getting to that level where every bike has dialed coming out of the shop. We'll take any of them to the NBA, open house and be proud of what we're bringing. 

[00:32:01] Craig Dalton: [00:32:01] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the weld quality is just always top. It's 

[00:32:04] Zack Spear: [00:32:04] amazing.

[00:32:05] Yeah. And he's got way more than those 10,000 hours, you know, he's good that I can weld. He can slap a beat down. Cool. Well, I appreciate 

[00:32:12] Craig Dalton: [00:32:12] the overview. This is awesome. 

[00:32:13] Zack Spear: [00:32:13] Awesome. Yeah. Good to meet you. 

[00:32:15]Salt Air

[00:32:15] Craig Dalton: [00:32:15] All right. Why don't we start off? Just give me your name and the brand name. 

[00:32:19] Matt Nelson: [00:32:19] Yeah, Matt Nelson. Pretty much the builder at salt air cycles. It's just me. And where are you located? Salt 

[00:32:25] Craig Dalton: [00:32:25] lake city. And tell me about the types of bikes you like to build. 

[00:32:28]Matt Nelson: [00:32:28] It's pretty much gravel. I mean, when I started building it wasn't necessarily called gravel, off-road mixed terrain bikes with Dropbox.

[00:32:36] It's been my forte and that's what people come to me for the most part. I mean, I do hard tails occasionally. Like I, I love mountain biking. I have a couple of hard tails myself, but yeah, it's, you know, sometimes it'll just be like a road bike that takes 30 twos. But it's mostly, you know, something to take up to a 40 sometimes more yeah, with drop bars.

[00:32:56] Craig Dalton: [00:32:56] And is it a completely custom operation? 

[00:32:59] Matt Nelson: [00:32:59] It is. Yeah, I don't do any production bikes. And to be honest, my price point doesn't really yet reflect full custom. But they're all, you know, they're, one-offs, you know, so my price point basically will include custom geometry, custom sizing just because of the way I am.

[00:33:16] Great. And 

[00:33:17] Craig Dalton: [00:33:17] how long have you been building 

[00:33:18] Matt Nelson: [00:33:18] bikes for? I built my first bike in 2000. I went to a UBI, the United bicycle Institute in Portland. And at the time I was a, an architect and I just had the bug and built my first bike really loved it, came back home to salt lake and just wanting to do more.

[00:33:38] So building for friends and just getting more experience. And then in 2014, I think I registered as a business with the salt lake. But I still had a full-time job as an architect. And then it just grew from there. And then as of January, 2016 on my full-time job and tell 

[00:33:55] Craig Dalton: [00:33:55] us about the frame materials you'd like to use PRI 

[00:33:58] Matt Nelson: [00:33:58] primarily steel.

[00:33:59]I occasionally I'll do some stainless like full stainless frames but it's a lot of Columbus Sometimes Reynolds, but yeah, I've ventured. I've done. I did do one stainless frame with carbon yeah. CMASS, which actually collaborated with NBN. But yeah, steals my thing and I'm actually a braiser so I don't, well, I'm not a TIG welder, so I do fill it braised bikes lug bikes for people that like the classic look and then sometimes mix and match.

[00:34:26] Like I'll do a Bilan. 

[00:34:29] Craig Dalton: [00:34:29] And tell me about the ride quality. If someone calls and asks about, you know, what's the output? What do you, what's the feeling the writer's going to get on one of your bikes? 

[00:34:37] Matt Nelson: [00:34:37] Yeah. So I mean, a lot of people will think of steel or what's been circulated out.

[00:34:42] There is like steel is real and you know, it has a great ride quality, especially for off-road. And that's true. I mean, you can build a steel bike. That's. What's the right word. I mean, it's more forgiving. It's going to flex in all the right parts, but you can also build a very S stiff frame you know, say someone wants to do crit racing or whatever, and they just want a stiff frame, you know, that they can race on for 45 minutes.

[00:35:05]It's just there's. I mean, the tube technology that Columbus and the other brands Reynolds have continued to push even when after aluminum and then car. Became the top performing materials. They've continued to make their toot differ stronger and thinner wall. So they can be lighter. But yeah.

[00:35:28]So to answer your question, I mean, I, my personal, like for mixed dream writing is a bike. That's like an, oh, what they call oversize tube standards. So in these days, if you look at the bike and it looks like a skinny tube bike, but yeah. It's actually pretty stiff depending on the size, but it can you can do, you know, it feels great.

[00:35:50] It doesn't beat you up on a long 90 mile, 8,500 feet climb, mixed train ride. And then again, for a bigger writer that might be flexing a frame that, yeah. You know, someone who weighs 150 pounds, you can up-size those tubes and. You can tune the ride, you can tune the quality of the ride. 

[00:36:08] Craig Dalton: [00:36:08] Is that sort of, part of the customer journey with you?

[00:36:10] If I call you up looking for a bike, do we work through what I'm looking for? What my body, weight and 

[00:36:14] Matt Nelson: [00:36:14] sizes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I want, there's a big thing I want to hear from you. Like how do you plan on using the bike? What kind of writing do you like to do? Aesthetics comes into, I mean, I do get customers who are like, you know, I love steel, but I don't want to S I don't want one of those skinny tube.

[00:36:30] Or old school looking bikes. And you know, like Columbus came out with their Cento tube set, which is like their a hundred year anniversary, I think in 2019. And that's probably the stiffest that tube set alone is probably the stiffest steel tubes that I've ever seen. It just has a massive 44 millimeter down tube and, you know, tapered seat too.

[00:36:53] Oversized integrated head too. And then the the chain stays are actually much taller. I think they're like 36 compared to the standard 30 oval design. So it makes a super stiff bike, still relatively light as well, depending on what size it 

[00:37:08] Craig Dalton: [00:37:08] is. Can you tell me about the bike that you've brought to the NV builder?

[00:37:11] Roundup? 

[00:37:12] Matt Nelson: [00:37:12] Yeah. So that bike is, I mean, I'm calling it the rodeo, especially all it's set up to do these, you know, 60, 70, 80, 90 mile gravel grinders, mixed terrain. I mean it's a lot like a cyclocross bike, but through some water bottle losses on it, a a little bit more clearance for a bigger tire.

[00:37:31] So the one I brought too is, you know, can fit up to a 4,700 seat by 40. Again, this one's a Phillip race bike actually. Most of my frames, I send to Colorado to get painted. But I went did a liquid job locally and it turned out really well. I, this bike is actually for a local writer who w he's going to ride tomorrow and it's going to be his first time.

[00:37:54] Right. But I think he'll be he'll be stoked on it. And he's he's a mountain goat here. I think he's going to really Excel on this bike and on this course tomorrow. 

[00:38:03] Craig Dalton: [00:38:03] Nice. Thanks for the overview. I appreciate it. 

[00:38:06] Matt Nelson: [00:38:06] Yeah, you bet. Thank you.

[00:38:07]Holland Cycles

[00:38:07]Craig Dalton: [00:38:07] Let's start out by getting your name and the company

[00:38:09] you 

[00:38:09] work for. 

[00:38:10] Cody Stevenson: [00:38:10] Cody Stevenson from Holland cycles out of San 

[00:38:13] Craig Dalton: [00:38:13] Diego, California. And tell us a little bit about Holland. 

[00:38:15] Cody Stevenson: [00:38:15] So Holland has been in business now for 47 years building frames. It's bill Holland. And I came on into the fold with bill about 10 years.

[00:38:25] And 

[00:38:25] Craig Dalton: [00:38:25] when he started out, was he starting in a steel bike? 

[00:38:28] Cody Stevenson: [00:38:28] Exactly. He did steel frames and then he went through, into the titanium realm back with Eisentrout many moons ago. And and then we also offer in the last 10 years here, we've offered a carbon option as well. 

[00:38:43] Craig Dalton: [00:38:43] Interesting. Tell me about the show bikey brought to ENVE.

[00:38:46] Cody Stevenson: [00:38:46] He had a show like that. We brought is it's our HGT. I, so it is a, it's one about gravel models. This one is a two-by system with clearance for 50 mil tires. It's got a real sweet, so the AR 3.4 was on it. It's my personal bike. So I get to rip it up tomorrow when the Graziadio and you know, just a lot of the features that you want to touch on with with a gravel bike.

[00:39:08] You want it to be able to perform, obviously you want it to be comfortable. And you wanted to. That's 

[00:39:13] pretty 

[00:39:13] Craig Dalton: [00:39:13] big tire clearance. How are you able to achieve that? 

[00:39:17] Cody Stevenson: [00:39:17] Lots of bending. Yeah, just bending stays and placement of of the stays at the bottom bracket. Just really honing in on how can we get the best of both worlds in regard to clearance for the tire and also have enough clearance for your 

[00:39:32] Craig Dalton: [00:39:32] chain rings.

[00:39:33] What does the journey look like for a customer who wants to get a Holland titanium frame? 

[00:39:37] Cody Stevenson: [00:39:37] First thing that a customer needs. Pick up the phone and give me a call and we set up a feeding appointment. We're really big on doing the feedings. In-house we have people flying all over the country to come and do the fitting because we feel that the fitting obviously is the first piece of it, but we also like to figure out.

[00:39:54] The individual wants from a ride quality and a handling perspective, because there's so many options that we can do with the frames. And then obviously anything with custom it's hurry up and white. You get put into the build list. We do complete bikes or frame sets and obviously lead times were much easier to decipher 18 months ago.

[00:40:15] And right now We are in a nice position of being able to still get blacks out the door. But obviously with the influx of ordering where nine to 12 months out on delivery at this 

[00:40:27] Craig Dalton: [00:40:27] point. Gotcha. Was there a point in time going back a few years since you've been there 10 years, that you started to see this influx of, Hey, I want a bigger tire.

[00:40:36] Hey, I'm writing this off. 

[00:40:38] Cody Stevenson: [00:40:38] Absolutely. And I I mean, I'm a roadie per se, but I grew up racing BMX. So I love to taking my bike off road, even though it was a road bike with caliber brakes. And definitely we we got more and more of the, sort of the murmurings of you know, can we put it 28 on this?

[00:40:55] Can we, you know, whichever. Was this, you know, some astounding width tire and you know, can we run 90 PSI? And you know, so from there, it, obviously they evolved into, you know, let's get rid of calipers and where we're all in on, you know, whatever whatever clearance we can get for options. I mean, if you can get as much clearance, you can always put a 32 or 35 times.

[00:41:19] If 

[00:41:19] Craig Dalton: [00:41:19] you had to hazard a guess, what percentage of the bikes are tending towards gravel? 

[00:41:22]Cody Stevenson: [00:41:22] Basically for us, it's almost split directly down the middle. So we offer our gravel blocks with titanium and then we have a carbon road frame as well as an option. And we actually still do that in a rim brake option.

[00:41:34] So remain disk in on the carbon roadside of things. But yeah, I mean, if we get a call for a titanium frame, it's a Graebel frame. 

[00:41:42] Craig Dalton: [00:41:42] And are you on the carbon side? Forgive me if I missed this, but is it exclusively on the roadside or do you make carbon gravel bikes as 

[00:41:49] Cody Stevenson: [00:41:49] well? We do not make a carbon Graebel buck.

[00:41:51]We feel that titanium is a better material, just from an impact perspective. We do our road bike has clearance for 35 mil ties, but it is not a graveled life. Right. 

[00:42:02] Craig Dalton: [00:42:02] That makes sense. Since I'm curious. And you mentioned it earlier about that internal process, right? Making carbon fiber frames out of San Diego.

[00:42:11] Can you just talk it? I sort of high-level for the listeners, so they understand, I mean, it blows my mind that the carbon fiber is coming in these sheets and you're going from there. 

[00:42:20] Cody Stevenson: [00:42:20] Sure. So yeah, obviously with the carbon fiber road friends, we use lugged system to customize it. So we have obviously individual chews that are laid up just like any tube.

[00:42:31]And and then we have lugs, which are, as part of the matrix are designed to accept certain angles and Wolf thicknesses. So there's 86 different molds to make all of the custom frames and all of the custom sizes. And 

[00:42:46] Craig Dalton: [00:42:46] is the, are the lugs made out of a different material? 

[00:42:49] Cody Stevenson: [00:42:49] No, Barbara as well.

[00:42:51] And so yeah, it's a completely common, yeah. And the nice piece about it is that the ride quality that we get out of the lug design is that you get a vibration damping quality when you have a material. Two dissimilar materials put together. And the poxy that's bonding the carbon together at the lug dissipates vibration.

[00:43:12]You get a really nice subtle right out of it. And you can make the frame really nice. And fortunately region 

[00:43:18] Craig Dalton: [00:43:18] as you're manufacturing the tubes, are you going back to that customer discussion? Right? You know, this is a 180 pound person, and they're looking for this ride quality and making modifications to the weeds.

[00:43:28] Absolutely. 

[00:43:28] Cody Stevenson: [00:43:28] We have zero stock of anything, carbon fiber, except for the carbon fiber sheets themselves. Everything is laid up for the individual. We use different modulates for the individual. We do obviously different bias. I mean the whole nine yards. Everything is for the individual, not just from a sizing perspective, but ride quality and.

[00:43:50] I 

[00:43:50] Craig Dalton: [00:43:50] think that's super cool. I mean, a lot of times when you think of buying that custom bike, historically, it was going to be a metal bike and you thought about the person welding it, et cetera, but it is mind blowing to imagine that you can weave the carbon fiber tube based on my personality.

[00:44:04] I want the bike to it. 

[00:44:05] Cody Stevenson: [00:44:05] Absolutely it is. And the big reason behind being able to do that is that we have Mike Lopez on board with us who. Reynolds composites back in the day, the Reynolds ouzo pro fork came out of the same shop that our carbon is coming out of. He built all them, the Vici with Serrata all of the carbon that was on Serota otros.

[00:44:27] It came from Mike Lopez and he is the brains behind all of that. And we're really fortunate to be a team working. 

[00:44:33] Craig Dalton: [00:44:33] Amazing. Thanks for the overview. I appreciate it. You're very welcome. Thank you.


[00:44:37]Okay, why don't we start off. Can you tell me your name and the company you work for? 

[00:44:41] Drew Medlock: [00:44:41] Yeah, I'm drew Medlock CEO at ally. 

[00:44:44] Craig Dalton: [00:44:44] Drew. Tell me about that beautiful allied echo that I just saw. 

[00:44:49] Drew Medlock: [00:44:49] Cool. Yeah, actually it's my bike. We even are not. It's my personal bike that has now turned into a show bike.

[00:44:55] That's a good feeling. It is a good, it's a good ability to get, to show it off all the time, but I haven't got to ride it. 

[00:45:00] Craig Dalton: [00:45:00] It had to stay clean for this event, I imagine. Yeah. Will it get dirty tomorrow, like rodeo? Maybe 

[00:45:05] Drew Medlock: [00:45:05] I think rodeo tomorrow sounds more like an able run. So if I'm reading that one correctly.

[00:45:10] So I think there'll be bigger tires than the echo. 

[00:45:13] Craig Dalton: [00:45:13] Let's talk about the echo as you and I were talking about offline. It's a really unique beast in the gravel market because it bridges that fine line between super capable road, bike, and super capable. Off-road. 

[00:45:27] Drew Medlock: [00:45:27] Yeah, absolutely. When we designed it, we were actually trying to start ground up with a amazing road bike that also could do gravel.

[00:45:34] And we really worried that you'd arbitrary and the performance really on a grand tour level road bike. So we were thinking like, this is why you should compete against a tarmac at a grand tour, but then also be able to run up to 40 millimeter tires. And that's from the aesthetics and also the performance that's really what we 

[00:45:50] Craig Dalton: [00:45:50] were going for.

[00:45:51] So let's talk about that unique. Chip technology that kind of enables this to happen. 

[00:45:57] Drew Medlock: [00:45:57] Yeah. So the bike uses a flip chip, which, you know, from mountain bikers out there know that's nothing new, right. That's been done a lot. But what it allows us to do on this bike specifically is lengthen the chains day by one centimeter.

[00:46:10] So you go from like a grand tour, erode geometry, super short chain stays to a centimeter longer and run 10 millimeters, more tire volume. And then on the front raises the axle to crown by one centimeter. Greases the tire volume. 

[00:46:23] Craig Dalton: [00:46:23] And does that change the head tube angle? 

[00:46:25] Drew Medlock: [00:46:25] So it slackens out the geometry of the bike just a little bit.

[00:46:28] So you actually do get a true different geometry for road and gravel mode. I think for me personally, I've written a lot of bikes that are like a gravel bike that you can also put road wheels on. And for me that somebody is designed to work with bikes. I always feel like the road bike, you know, I'm riding a gravel bike with small tires on it.

[00:46:46] It really doesn't handle the way a true road, race bikes. And so we wanted something that really could do both. 

[00:46:52] Craig Dalton: [00:46:52] So on that flip ship, on the fork, it's a vertical movement. Correct. And then on the stay it's a horizontal, correct? Yeah. 

[00:46:59] Drew Medlock: [00:46:59] So just links into the chase day or raises the axle to crown. 

[00:47:03] Craig Dalton: [00:47:03] And then tell me about the adjustment that you need to make on the brake caliper to achieve that movement and how you've 

[00:47:09] Drew Medlock: [00:47:09] executed that.

[00:47:10] Yeah, so basically the breakout per the chip actually is on a It's mounted to the fork. So the caliper is actually mounted to the piece that moves. So the caliper on the front doesn't actually have to be readjusted at all, given that if you're using it we'll set with the same hub, right? When you shut, swap away, same for the rear.

[00:47:28]The rear, you do have to take one caliper, bolt out to move it, but the caliper still stains in the same position. So if you're using the same set of hubs St. Brander rotors, you probably will not have to change your readjust your brakes after swap. 

[00:47:41] Craig Dalton: [00:47:41] When you're in gravel mode, what type of tire clearance 

[00:47:44] Drew Medlock: [00:47:44] do you have?

[00:47:45] 40 millimeter actual. And the tire cleaners is at that peace of mind, cause everybody like what your tire says on a hot stamp on side has nothing to do with actually what size it is. So for all you all writers out there, it's a good thing to know. I've seen 40 millimeter tires that measure 38, 40 millimeter tires at wizard or a 44.

[00:48:04] So we are measuring actually 40 millimeters attire. And that's including four millimeters of additional parents at the rear of the bike as well. Right. You know, Collin actually ran bigger than a 40 at Unbound gravel that a lot of people notice he's running in 42 specialized Pathfinder.

[00:48:19]So it does fit because we actually do have clearance, but he was in the our safety zone for parents that we'd like to keep for everyday years or so with mud and, you know, Yeah. Junk fluids through your frame, just to make sure you 

[00:48:32] Craig Dalton: [00:48:32] protect it for it. Yeah. That's what Collin mentioned to me. He said he's like on a dry day, I stuck a 42 in there.

[00:48:37] I didn't have a concern, but I wouldn't be doing that in a muddy course. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, I mean, it was super exciting to see him ride that bike on Unbound 201 weekend and then Tulsa tough criteria I'm 

[00:48:51] on 

[00:48:51] Drew Medlock: [00:48:51] the road. Yeah. That was nuts and completely unexpected. And you know, it was even going to Unbound.

[00:48:57] He was really like. You know, different bikes, he was gonna ride the able, or the echo. And in the end he'd been putting most of the miles on the echo and he felt the most comfortable on it. And it's a lower front end. So he's got a lower profile on the bikes. So it was probably a little faster on the bike as well.

[00:49:12] So that was the call to go with the echo. And then, you know, for Tulsa tough, like manage, like we said, we designed that thing as a road racing machine, you know, with the road setting for the geometry. No problem. When he was in the breakaway and crab crybaby hill. So worked out pretty good.

[00:49:25] Craig Dalton: [00:49:25] You expect interesting and new things from allied at Unbound every year. So the pressures just keep, keeps getting amped 

[00:49:32] Drew Medlock: [00:49:32] up. Well, we did have a skip year, so that gave us a little bit of breathing room. So 

[00:49:37] Craig Dalton: [00:49:37] that's true. So you might be on an every two 

[00:49:39] Drew Medlock: [00:49:39] year cycle. Yeah, we'll see. think we've got some new stuff come up or sleeve, so we'll see what the timing looks like.

[00:49:44] Craig Dalton: [00:49:44] Awesome. And it's worth noting. You're manufacturing in America. See, it's all under one roof now, is that right? 

[00:49:50] Drew Medlock: [00:49:50] Yeah. Everything's under one roof far full manufacturing team is located in Northwest Arkansas and we build everything from the ground up there. The echo is a real special bike for us, not just because of the performance, but also that bike was developed all by the new team after we moved to our new factory and Rogers, Arkansas.

[00:50:08] And so it's a huge achievement for our team and this being able to put it off. No just performance and sports stuff out there, but also all our, you know, maturity and our, their manufacturing techniques together for the spike. And so we're really excited about it. And we're building, you know, almost every single part of that bike in house, including all the alway flip chips and dropouts and the stem.

[00:50:30] So it's super exciting. 

[00:50:31] Craig Dalton: [00:50:31] Nice. What does a customer journey look like to get their hands on one of these 

[00:50:34] Drew Medlock: [00:50:34] bikes? Yeah, so I go, does it as an ally cycle works. You can actually jump on and we have several different bill options and you can check it out and actually configure, you know what wheels you want, paint, you want all that stuff online and then you can hit us up directly.

[00:50:47] Or if you have a good local dealer you can open them up too. 

[00:50:50] Craig Dalton: [00:50:50] And what does turnaround time look like these days 

[00:50:53] Drew Medlock: [00:50:53] for echos? We're running between eight to 10 weeks delivery. Of course, that major caveat there is on lead times for parts. Somethings we are better on than others right now. So that's always, you know, the tricky questions because we're good at making echoes within eight to 10 weeks, but Shimano and Schramm are not very good at delivering REITs right now.

[00:51:14] Craig Dalton: [00:51:14] Yeah. It's you can throw extra labor at building something fast, stay up late, really hit that customer delivery date, but we can't control global supply chains. 

[00:51:23] Drew Medlock: [00:51:23] Yeah. Unfortunately 

[00:51:24] Craig Dalton: [00:51:24] we can't. Yeah. Well, congrats on the execution of the ACA I think it's a great bike and I'm super excited to see where it goes.


[00:51:31]So that's going to do it for this week's episode of the gravel ride podcast.

[00:51:35]I hope you enjoyed those mini builder interviews. And got a little bit of a sense for their process and what it's like purchasing a custom bike. There are a ton of great options out there. All the builders represented in the NV partner network are creating exceptional products. Some of them, one of a kind. 

[00:51:54]Take a look at some of the websites, take a look at some of the videos out there online. 

[00:51:59] You won't be disappointed at what you see from the ENVE builder Round-up.  

[00:52:02]Huge, thanks to ENVE for their support of the podcast and a huge thank you for them putting together this event. I know, I look forward to seeing it every year and to be out there in person this year, followed by that massive grody or ride was a real pleasure. Until next time here's to finding some dirt under your wheels