Jun 13, 2023

🚴‍♂️ In today's episode, we explore the crucial role of nutrition 🍎 in endurance events such as the Belgian Waffle Ride (BWR), as we discuss this fascinating topic with Denis Faye, an expert in the field of cycling nutrition.

Throughout the episode, our conversation delves into the importance of fueling our bodies and minds for perseverance in endurance racing. Along the way, we share personal experiences of trial ✍️ and error, discussing the lessons we've learned about proper nutrition through these challenges.

We cover valuable insights from Denis's book, The BWR Guide to Eating Like a Semi Pro, focusing on developing healthier diet plans, practicing gut training, and understanding the specific fuels needed for varying lengths of endurance racing.

 Additionally, we reminisce about some unique racing moments, including unconventional food choices that may not have been the best ideas 😅. Join us as we gain a deeper understanding of the art and science 💡 behind nutrition for endurance cycling. Don't miss this informative and insightful episode, designed to help you enhance your cycling performance. 📈

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Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos:

[00:00:00]Craig Dalton (host): Denis, welcome to the show.

[00:00:05]Denis Faye: Thanks. I, I

[00:00:06]Craig Dalton (host): It's good to connect with you. I'm glad you

[00:00:08]Denis Faye: Oh, it is, I, uh, you're, you're my, you're my target market. You're, you're the exact, uh, your people are my people. So, um, I, I really appreciate you, uh, checking out the book and having me on.

[00:00:21]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I feel like every year I wanna make sure to have conversations about nutrition because I. I think it's, it's something that's a very complex subject. Yet with the right information in front of you, it's easy to make a plan to be successful during a race like B W

[00:00:39]Denis Faye: Yeah. And, and there's, there's things you need and there's things you don't need, and you can kind of start with the basic stuff and work your way up. And it's also nice cuz you, you, you learn by doing, like everyone's gonna bonk. At some point, you're gonna, you're gonna have the worst trace in the world, and there's no better, there's no better way than to learn, than have something horrible happen because it's like, you know, grabbing the stove, the hot pad, you, you don't forget.

So,

[00:01:09]Craig Dalton (host): Yep. And in particularly in in these long races, I feel like there's opportunities to feel like crap, and there's opportunities to recover from feeling like crap. It's just about keeping going and making those adjustments to your nutrition. To fuel that recovery, to get the power back in your system and your

[00:01:28]Denis Faye: Yeah, exactly. I, I mean, you're, it's, especially when you're getting into the hundreds of miles, it's, it's a foregone conclusion that you're gonna run outta glycogen and blood sugar if you're going hard because you can, you, uh, can you expend more than you absorb. You don't, you just can't absorb that much, so, There's just some things you can do to kind of stave off the inevitable.

[00:01:53]Craig Dalton (host): And I think even in that, even in what you just said, there's an important realization for the listener in that you're not gonna stay completely ahead of the situation. It's about staving off the damage and never getting to a completely depleted moment in your your day effectively.

[00:02:12]Denis Faye: I mean, it's important to accept that moment because, I, I mean, a really important thing, especially in a, in a gravel situation where there's a lot of thinking you gotta do, um, once you're bonking, like your brain needs sugar too. So, uh, you and you feel miserable and you're probably not making the best choices.

So keep that in mind if you're gonna bomb a hill when you're bonking, because it may seem like a break, but your, your brain's still trying to figure out how to navigate that thing. So,

[00:02:40]Craig Dalton (host): yes. I've had many of perplexing bad decisions after bonking in a long endurance event. Stuff that just, I can't reconcile how I could possibly be so dumb in that moment in

[00:02:53]Denis Faye: it's cuz your brain was outta gas, so

[00:02:56]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, totally, totally. I, one just quick antidote before I want, I definitely wanna get into your background. Um, during Ironman, I remember I had a, a, a particular time goal that I wanted to achieve and I got so bunked in the run that I could not do the simple math to get to that point and force myself to continue forward and hit that goal, which was attainable.

It's just my foggy math led me to believe I had more time than I actually had to meet my

[00:03:26]Denis Faye: it's what? What Iron Man was that?

[00:03:29]Craig Dalton (host): I, I did, uh, that was Ironman

[00:03:31]Denis Faye: Oh, okay. Hold on.

[00:03:33]Craig Dalton (host): so I did, I did Canada in New Zealand. I'm probably like losing listeners as we speak by admitting to being a triathlete, but I, they were absolutely formative experiences to me from a nutritional

[00:03:45]Denis Faye: okay. You know what, two years ago I did a half iron man in, so, you know, and I'd like to do a full, I messed up my shoulder, but when this thing's fixed, I, I do plan it. I'd like to do a full too, so maybe they're just okay. Now, whoever was sticking around. They listen to me left because we're both triathletes.

[00:04:05]Craig Dalton (host): Both admitted triathletes at times in our lives. Well, let's, let's do what we always do at the beginning of the show, Denny, and let's, let's just talk about your background and how you found your way to cycling. Cause I know it, it happened later in life for you. And then we'll talk about, because obviously it's germane to the, to the book we're gonna be talking about a little bit later, how you found your way into the field of nutrition and how you kind of learned along the way as you

[00:04:28]Denis Faye: Awesome. That sounds great. So,

[00:04:32]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. How did you discover the bike

[00:04:35]Denis Faye: um, a guy named Steve Edwards, I mean, I always rode bikes. I, I, uh, heard the podcast a few weeks, ba was it weeks back, Andrew? I. Vance was on, he was talking about his banana seat bike. I mean, I had one of those. And then I had a BMX bike. It was a Pook, P u C h, it was a terrible bike.

And you know, and then 10 speed and, you know, and, um, then, uh, in my twenties I had a diamond back and aluminum mountain bike, but never really took it seriously. Uh, and then, uh, in. Uh, it was 2012. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was 2012. Um, I've always had kind of a, I like to do hard things or, or stupid things depending on your opinion of me.

And, uh, my friend Steve Edwards, who was my, uh, boss at Beachbody, he was like, you know, you, um, you'd probably be really good at bikes. And he was a hardcore, um, cyclist and so he gave me this, uh, CAD four. This cannondale, it was one size too big. It was like a 58, but, um, that didn't matter. I, I, I rode 20 mile.

Well, actually got on the bike, rode here from Redondo to the bridge to the marina, which was like 10 miles to get there and along the beach. And it was just magic. Of course, it was the first time I had ever clipped in. So I ran, like, I rode my 10 miles, got to the bridge. Stopped and fell over sideways. You know,

[00:06:01]Craig Dalton (host): Of

[00:06:02]Denis Faye: you gotta figure that out.

But, um, and it just went from there. I, I, uh, graduated past that bike and, um, the year after that Steve was like, you know, you'd probably be pretty good at mountain biking. So, um, just showed up at my house one day with a couple of, uh, a couple of full suspension bikes and took me up in Santa Monica mountains and.

That was, uh, that was more of a learning curve that was, came home from that pretty beat up, but loved it too. And, and then, you know, along comes gravel and, and Cyclocross, cyclocross came for me first before gravel, and it's a combination of the two. You know, it's, it's just, it's just great. It's, I, I, I love 'em both.

And, and what's beautiful about gravel and about cx, especially when you get into the single speed, but we don't have to talk about that, is, um, You, uh, um, you're not, look, I don't mean to disparage mountain biking. I, I have a great, I have a niner. I love it. I use it all the time. But the bike does a bunch of the work, right?

I mean, you just ba and when you're on a, a, a gravel bike and you do something technical, you, you really have to think it's a puzzle. And, and, and I love that. It's really, it's just really fun. So,

[00:07:18]Craig Dalton (host): And so talking to you offline, you mentioned that you got drawn into the first B W R in 2014. Right? So just a few years after you started riding.

[00:07:27]Denis Faye: So, um, so it happened on my birthday and, uh, another, I mean, I, it is just, Steve was just my cycling mentor, that's why he keeps coming up. Uh, he died of cancer a few years back, unfortunately. But, um, yeah, he was really pivotal to me and he taught me this thing called the Birthday Challenge, where every year on your birthday you do a hard thing and I've done.

A lot of them. Um, probably my favorite was when I turned 45, uh, a group of friends and I rode from San Francisco to LA in two days, 450 miles. That was pretty cool. Um, but, uh, yeah, but, but for in 2014, I didn't have anything planned. And the Belgian waffle, which I'd always heard about it was legendary ride.

Um, well, I'll go back. Can I talk a little bit about the history of the Belgian waffle? Is that cool? Okay.

[00:08:17]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, if you like, I mean, I think it's, it's interesting and I think this will go into what you're probably about to describe, you know, Belgian waffle ride was this ride that Michael Marks started and had this sort of local allure of the Spring classic. You know, he designed it around a Belgian classic, and I remember meeting Michael in that timeframe, maybe after the first couple of years, and it was just kind of this thing where he was like, Oh, you should come do this ride.

And it sounded like from, from an outsider, a Northern Californians perspective, it, it would had just sort of grown by word of mouth that this is, hey, this cool, interesting thing that's happening down in San Diego. And then, you know, as we think about it in recent years, it has become this, you know, behemoth on the calendar.

But yeah, I'd love to get your perspective from back in those days.

[00:09:05]Denis Faye: Well, I mean, it was the cool kids would always do this, right? I wasn't my, my wife was cool enough. My wife Marilyn's a. She was, she's been riding forever and, um, she doesn't like it when I talked about her, so I just got in trouble for saying that. But well, well, um, uh, cool kids here in Southern California would do this thing called the French Toast Ride.

And, uh, M MX was, Michael Marx was one of 'em, and then he kind of wanted to kind of elevate it and bring it to the masses and, and add the Belgian nest to it. And so that's where the Belgian waffle right, came, came from. And it was pretty much just a. Gang of friends is she kind of thing for the first few.

And I jumped in on the third one and it was already a, it was a big show by then. Um, yeah, so my friend Kevin and I did it. Uh, I bonked unbelievably badly. Unbelievably badly. Um, and then funny story, um, Finished and we, and there's a big feed and, and you know, my name suggests there's some frenchness in me.

And, and, uh, I, uh, so there's, there were mussels, which a lot of Americans don't eat, but I, I love them and I'm just so excited to sit there and drink this, you know, it was made in a brewery there, uh, but Belgian beer and eat muscles, I was just so, so excited to do that. But, um, As I was waiting in line, there were these carrots, and so I ate a carrot and I was super hungry, so I ate it super fast.

So I didn't chew very well and my body reacted and I, and I think what happened, right? Af so thi this is some advice. Here's an actual item for, actionable item for your, your, your, uh, listeners. Um, you have these two nervous systems. You have the sympathetic and the parasympathetic, and. You know, like you have your rest and digest one and your stress flight or flight one, and I was still in the fight and flight system, so di digestion was difficult.

That's why after you do a really, really hard thing, it's a good idea to maybe like a, like a protein shake or something that's just easily digestible is, is, is a solid idea cuz it just kind of eases you back. Like basically shoving a carrot in your mouth hole. Doesn't work. And I just started barfing and, and, and just barfing.

And I, and I had the whole presentation. I was, everyone's like, woo, bear, woo muscles, woo. Whatever they're eating. And I, I just had one of the garbage buckets and it just yacking the whole time. So that really inspired me. And it really, and I wasn't supposed to be a nutrition expert at the time, and it really, I'm not gonna make that mistake again.

And I'm gonna, I'm gonna help others so that they don't make that mistake.

[00:11:43]Craig Dalton (host): Love it. So you went back the next year on the, on the following year after that, did you, did you improve your nutritional performance and physical

[00:11:52]Denis Faye: I did. I, I, um, I, well, I also, you know, in that first year it was, we didn't, back in my day, we didn't have gravel bikes. I, I was just a, it was a Fuji SST with gator skins on it. I mean, it was, I didn't even, those were cre questionable at the questionable tire choice, but they were tough. It's like, ah, that'll work.

Um, and so I did get a better, I got a crux and that was a big game changer. Um, but also, yeah, I, I got my eating right, was very smart about it, and regimented and, you know, don't, knowing a lot of it's really eating even when you're not hungry. That's a big key to, um, And another, I, I mean, I eat, you know, prepare beforehand.

Start eating for your race for, uh, yeah. You know, three or four days beforehand is when you're gonna start eating for your, your race or your ride. If it's, you're gonna go hard, right? And always eat for future. You always eat for you in an hour. That's crucial. You know, like how many times you've been riding with someone, you're like, you should eat.

And they're like, I'm not hungry. Like, future you is gonna be hungry, you know?

[00:12:58]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I think that's the thing that gets it. It's so easy to get drilled into you in the triathlon context because you're going to be doing something different. So believe me, I think when I first started training for triathlons, I went to a, a conversation with our, the team I was training with, and the, the coach was asking about, well, how do you, how do you eat when you're on the ride?

And I'm like, well, I usually do. NACA loop, which is a local loop. You're outta San Francisco, maybe 70 miles from San Francisco. And I said, well, you know, I'd have a couple bottles of water and, and maybe one nutritional product. And he would just, he just lost his mind. He's like, for 70 miles, cuz you know a lot of that old cycling training, he just kind of went out and did it and you didn't think too much about it.

But when you have to do something afterwards, you absolutely need to fuel up for that next event. But the truth is, even as a cyclist, as you just said, fueling for those moments an hour now from now, two hours from now, even if that's the moment when you're off the bike, is

[00:14:01]Denis Faye: is. Well, you bring up a good point though about I do the same thing. I'll go out on a, I'll go do the donut loop, which is, you know, super long and I get home and I had like a, A cliff bar at some point, and my water bottle's half full. I'm like, that was, that was foolish. But you know, you, you just kind of adapt and you learn how to do it.

And also if you're just going off for a mellow ride and you're not gonna get up into those higher zones, there's, you know, there I'm shrugging. I guess I shouldn't shrug be okay. I wish I could make a noise.

[00:14:33]Craig Dalton (host): It doesn't translate well into the audio

[00:14:35]Denis Faye: Lemme try that again. Uh, um, so, you know, if you're not gonna work that hard, you're not gonna.

You're gonna be fine. You're probably not gonna have to eat that much. And so, you know, I, I do. Sometimes you see these, these people mostly guys out for their, you know, their 30, 40 mile ride where they're just kind of cruising along, but they're just feeding like crazy. And it's like, that's not, you're just eating sugar, you're just eating candy right now.

You know, don't do that.

[00:15:04]Craig Dalton (host): So stepping back, so you, you started your career as a journalist and then found your way to a company called Beachbody and ended up focused for many years. In the field of nutrition along the way, as you've just described, you discovered cycling the Belgian waffle ride, the cyclo cross scene there in Southern California.

Let's talk about how it came to be writing this book, the B W R B W R guide to eating like a semi-pro.

[00:15:33]Denis Faye: Well, um, Beachbody was a masterclass for me in nutrition, you know, out the gate. Even though I wasn't a registered dietician, I, I had the opportunity to work with them and with scientists, and again, with Steve, um, uh, to, to really learn by doing and seeing how people did and then learn. Um, and then also we, we, we'd put out these programs with these nutrition guides, and then we'd see firsthand, you know, working with test groups.

And then after they came out, how. How the nutrition helped people. And I mean, it always helped people, but we were able to adjust and fine tune, you know, I got, I had, like, I, I got to be in this giant research study with like millions of people buying this stuff. Um, and you know, and have people working for me, dealing right with the customers so I could get that feedback and learn.

And then by the time I really started getting serious on the bike, I had a really solid foundation of sports nutrition. So it was very easy for me to just, um, build on that to, to, to kind of include endurance athletes into that, into that fold, you know? Um, and, and that, that's just kind of, that's what came to it.

And, uh, right after, you know, 20 years of beach pot, I decided to go do my own thing. And I, right now, I'm a nutrition, I'm a communications consultant. I help companies, um, Do their messaging and uh, um, M mx was just m mx in addition to being a cycling dude, is he, he's a marketing self, I dunno what it's called.

He's a, you know, like start, he's an entrepreneur. That's the word I'm looking for. And so, you know, asker and he's like, well, you should, you know a bunch of stuff. You should write me a book now. I don't think, I don't think he thought I'd actually do it. Uh, I was like, oh, you know what? I do know about that stuff.

So, um, kind of used my, my newsletter, uh, it's called New Personal Best Nutrition as a testing ground to write about different concepts and seeing what connected and what people were interested in, and then built the book around that. Um, and, and then really, you know, when you do, uh, you do a race like that three times in a row, you learn a lot about it.

So I was able to kind of fold my own experiences. Into, to what's required, um,

[00:18:01]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I think that's really useful and as as we may have been speaking about it offline, I think it's just, it's great that these bodies of information are out there because I do think that you can make a plan that will forgive you for some of the easy unforced

[00:18:18]Denis Faye: Yes. Yeah. It's, you know, everyone gets like, you buy these books and they're like 500 pages of you gotta do this, that, and that. And it's, it's. Yeah, everybody's different. You know, like, like everybody's body's different. And so when you're planning what's good for you, the best thing to do is is, I mean, sweating, for example.

We all sweat differently. Not only do we sweat different volumes, but we got different electrolytes that are different amounts, and so you gotta kind of listen to what you do. So what I tried to do with this book, Just give people a baseline, like you read this pretty short book and then you, um, you have the tools you need to write your own book to not, well, not literally, but you know, you have the tools you need to start experimenting with your body and watching what you do because there's no book in the world that's gonna teach you how to eat right for any kind of, any kind of support, better than really paying attention to how you respond to stuff.

[00:19:19]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, and a lot of trial and error. As you know, I like the way the book is set up in that you've got sort of the science-based first section of the book to sort of establish some baseline fundamental principles, but then you get into very specific ideas around pre-race, during race and post-race. And that's the area I'd like to drill in on a little bit, just cause I think it's one of those very practical takeaways.

So let, let's talk about pre-race and I, and there's, there's probably the immediate period, those four or five days prior to the race, what you wanna do. But there is probably also prior to that, some things you want to think about, uh, to, to your earlier point around you do need to learn these things about yourself.

And one of the things I wanted to touch on was just gut training. And what that

[00:20:11]Denis Faye: I, I love gut training. I, I, I think it's, it's the thing that gets overlooked a lot and, um, I mean, for a bunch of different, again, you don't know how you're gonna react to stuff. And then also, um, you know, like when you bonk, for example, you know, bonking is when you run out of blood sugar and glycogen. Uh, do you want me to explain that or can we just leave it at that?

Everyone knows.

[00:20:35]Craig Dalton (host): I think we can leave it at that. Yeah. If you don't know, go ride your ass off for six hours. Don't eat anything

[00:20:40]Denis Faye: Yeah. And when you hit that point, you're just gonna have to shovel crap in your mouth that you don't want to eat and drink. You're just gonna have to, to survive. So if you're, if you're trained to deal with those uncomfortable situations, it's not gonna be quite so miserable.

Um, and also, you know, uh, We don't all get to preview our courses. Um, so, you know, I, I don't know if you've ever done this, but I, I've done this where I didn't quite know the race, but I knew I needed to eat and maybe I ate something a bit more substantial than I really should, like a bar or, um, Something and then come around the corner and there's just a hill, there's just a wall you gotta climb and your gut's competing with your legs for the, for your blood.

And it's just, it's just really bad. So if you've put yourself into those situations, um, you're better equipped not to suffer so much. Um,

[00:21:34]Craig Dalton (host): So what does, what does gut training look like from a practical perspective? How would you describe it to someone? What are some of the exercises they might go through in their, their months of training prior to a big

[00:21:43]Denis Faye: well first of all, don't do it more than once a week. Like the rest of the time, your training should be your training for training. You don't want to sandbag yourself all the time. But, but in a lot of ways it's part of, it's like a weekly sandbag or a bi-week, uh, fortnightly sandbag. Um, where, I mean, what I would, what I did personally would wake up in the morning and eat like a pretty reasonable, uh, bowl of cereal with yogurt.

And then go for a hard ride. And, and it's, you know, within an hour of, you know, within half an hour of, of that, you, you feel it, you feel that gut bomb. And, and

[00:22:21]Craig Dalton (host): And what, what are you feeling there? Is your, is your stomach occupying, you know, doing its thing and, and taking energy away from your legs?

[00:22:29]Denis Faye: blood. You need blood to exercise and you need blood to digest. And, um, the when you are, when you are exercising, the blood leaves your body. Now Doesn leave your body. Uh, it leaves, it leaves your, your guts and it goes out to your extremities. And when you eat, um, all the blood goes middle.

That's why when you eat, sometimes you get cold. That's cuz all the blood's gone down there to digest. And so, um, yeah, you, you know, you eat and then the blood's supposed to be down in your gut and then you start writing and the blood's going out to your, your, your arms and your legs. And, uh, that can be problem that, you know, that can be problematic.

So, but if you've done that a bunch, your body kind of understands what's going on. And I don't know the exact physiology of where the blood goes when you're, when you've got trained. Frankly, I don't think anyone does. That's not something that, well, maybe there might be a research. You know what, I'm gonna research it and see if there's a, uh, specific study.

Um, I do know there's a Japanese study where they fed hamburgers to cyclists right before they, uh, uh, exercised and the cyclists got nauseous. And that was the result of the study is if you eat hamburgers before you ride your bike, you're gonna get nauseous. I,

[00:23:39]Craig Dalton (host): Very, very specific

[00:23:41]Denis Faye: yes. So that's one thing. And,

[00:23:43]Craig Dalton (host): I imagine.

[00:23:44]Denis Faye: sorry. Go ahead.

[00:23:45]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I was gonna say, I imagine the other thing obviously is just trying a bunch of different foods to understand what works for you, whether it's gels, bars, et cetera. And also understanding that appreciating it for an hour or one hours is one thing, but appreciating it for a 10 hour day is an entirely other thing.

And considering, you know, what is that mix of items that you're gonna be stoked to eat because you need to

[00:24:13]Denis Faye: Yeah. Well, there's a couple of nuances to that. One is it's a good idea if you can, to figure out who the race sponsors are and figure out what products you'll be eating. Um, it, you know, that's, that's like a golden rule of, of endurance sport is never eat something new on, on race day. Just whether you're a cyclist or a gravel grinder, or a runner or a.

Paraglider, I don't know. Whatever you are, don't do that. Um, so that's a, that's a, that's a kind of a good idea. Although, you know, frankly, we all blow that when we go do gravel races and

[00:24:50]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, and, and if, you know, I think that's, I often tend to bring all my own gear, all my own nutrition, simply because I don't wanna count on it. But it does become unwieldy if you're trying to take 10 hours of stuff out there on the bike and. It's worthwhile testing out those other products to make sure they

[00:25:09]Denis Faye: On the, on the, my third Belgian waffle ride, I brought a burrito. I thought I was super clever. Put it in my jersey pocket and I, uh, bit the dust in the sand trap landed on my back and it was, it was kind of a really terrible case to. Still tasted good, but it was nuts. Don't do that. So, um, now they have that, they have burrito bags now.

So you guys, you'd be safe that way. Um, but the other thing to that, yeah, it's a scientific phenomenon called flavor fatigue. It's a real thing. And you just, it's, remember I was talking about that sympathetic parasympathetic nervous system thing? You, you get your stress response elevates so much that your body's like, I don't want to eat, I just wanna get done, whatever you're making me do.

And, um, And it's, it's kind of bad cuz you're just draining your source. So, so when you get in that state, and then again, the gut training can do that, you just, you need to keep eating. You need to, you know, if you, and if you're not going to eat and you're gonna bonk training's a good time to do that. It's not safe, it's not healthy, but better to screw up on a training ride than to screw up on the race that you've been training a year or two for, you know.

[00:26:19]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. How should people be thinking about those two three day run up to the Belgian waffle ride? What are the things they need to be thinking about? Are there things they need to be avoiding?

[00:26:28]Denis Faye: Um, uh, uh, anything that'll make you sick. I mean, a lot of, some people go so far as to say the new food thing is also a good time to practice that, um, you know, and you don't wanna be all bloated the next morning. Uh, I, I've given different advice over the years, but my current stance, there's a, there's a woman, Australian researcher named Louise Burke.

And her, her advice, she's great. Her advice is very simple, and that's just, you know, like two or three days before the race, eat a lot of carbs. Um, and again, you you'll learn how much that that is. But, so you have this stuff in your muscles called glycogen, which is like a back of blood sugar and, um, It kind of fills and, and depletes, fills and depletes, and you can kind of cram it full, like you can fill your muscles up like glycogen, sausages.

Um, if you eat a whole bunch of carbs for a few days leading up to your event, um, probably like the night, you know, the night before is a pretty good idea. Don't completely, don't eat so much the night before that. You wake up in the morning feeling like crap. But, but, you know, eat nice and then, and then in the morning before your race, that's not, don't think about like packing it in.

Like that's when you're, you're replenishing your stocks and you want to eat smart, sensible food, but you don't want to pork out, right? Like, you know, within those last few hours, cuz you'll just have a stomach full of food. And as much as I like the gut training and recommend it for training rides, don't deliberately sandbag yourself before a race.

[00:28:06]Craig Dalton (host): as you're transitioning to event morning and you just mentioned, you know, eat a little bit lighter, don't feel like you need to totally pack it in. Oftentimes with these gravel events, you might see athletes arriving. An hour before the event to line up or cue in, in to get a good position. Should, should you be eating during that time period, how close to actually the gun going off?

[00:28:30]Denis Faye: So the general rule again, You as an individual may have, uh, you're gonna learn how your body works, right? But the general guidelines are, uh, two to three hours of four. Pretty good substantial b balanced breakfast, but like a carby one. So we're talking, you know, oatmeal and fruits and nuts or, or pancakes or waffles or, or, or whatever.

Not. I'm not talking about eggs and bacon. Um, cuz there's no carbohydrates in that. Um, and, and then if you, Um, if you've ha you've done that, you'll probably be pretty okay. Just kind of keep sipping water. Um, maybe have like right before the start, um, have like a little gel or a little, you could have a couple of dates if you're Mr.

Natural. This is natural. Um, if you didn't do that, if waking up that early and needing that far in advances in impossibility, uh, um, like an hour before your race have, um, something pretty carby. Like, uh, like the Belgian waffle has waffles. Um, so you could just kind of have a waffle then, or, or, um, you know, a piece of fruit plus.

Um, and then if you still didn't have that half an hour, 20 minutes before, like, like, like half a banana, something like that. Um, and good luck. You probably should have woken up a little bit earlier and eaten. Okay.

[00:29:57]Craig Dalton (host): once the gun goes off, obviously a lot of adrenaline, a lot of pack riding. Certainly in in, in B W R San Diego for example. When do you need to be hitting some food top offs? And at what interval should riders be thinking about?

[00:30:12]Denis Faye: broken record, but you know, it, it, it depends on you, but generally speaking, the guideline is about 45 minutes. You should, you know, you should start feeding because you may not be hungry and you may be satisfied, but during any hard event, you're always eating and drinking for future. You, you're not dehydrated.

You will be in the future. If you don't drink, you are not boning. You will be in the future if you don't eat. So I personally shoot for about, um, 45 minute intervals. Like lot of people write stuff on their top tube or they set timers in their, um, device. To remind them when to feed. Um, you know, you said you bring your own food.

I, I, I, I like, I'm kind of cheap and I'm like, I paid this money. I'm gonna eat the food that's provided to me. But I always leave stuff in my pocket. I may actually take a few things from the aid table and put it in my pocket. I would never advise that to people, but, you know, whatever. Um,

[00:31:09]Craig Dalton (host): I am, I'm the guy who ends up finishing with stuff still in his pockets because I'm so nervous about not having food available to me when I need it, that I do tend to, I do tend to, uh, surf the aisles of the aid station and grab

[00:31:25]Denis Faye: was smart to do one year, um, I forget which race it I was doing, but they had, uh, some big brand had these squeezers like, and it was like this marinara sauce. It was like a pizza squeezer and they had tons of them. Do you remember those? It was a big brand.

[00:31:43]Craig Dalton (host): but that, that does not sound appealing to

[00:31:45]Denis Faye: I thought it was delicious.

And I'm like the only one there, there were 300 people at this race. No one could stand 'em. They like gave me a box afterwards cuz I was talking about how good I thought they, they were, I guess I shouldn't throw the, whoever came up, they, they went, they, they disappeared next year. I'd never saw 'em again, but I, I enjoyed them

[00:32:01]Craig Dalton (host): yeah, yeah.

[00:32:02]Denis Faye: out.

[00:32:03]Craig Dalton (host): So we, we've kind of set the expectation of the goal that we're trying to eat every 45 minutes. I, I love that tip of writing some times down on your top tube, or, my personal favorite was definitely that countdown timer on my watch, just to remind me, Hey, dummy. Just start eating. Don't think about it.

Um, one last thing to to, to, to think about along the way, which I think is a, a great tip. If you do get behind the eight ball, do you double up your feed the next hour or does that just

[00:32:37]Denis Faye: Uh, it might, I mean, uh, so, so it's generally believed that humans, it's carbs for starters, it's sugar is your friend, you know, all the anti added sugar stuff. I, I don't disagree with it, but when you are. In a race situation, when, when you're pushing your body that hard, first of all, sugar doesn't do that bad insulin thing.

It just goes, goes right to fuel. And two, you need so much of it so fast that sugar is a very, very good thing. Um, And generally they say like, you can absorb about 16 to 90 grams. Now they're saying you can train your gut to absorb like 120 grams. We didn't get too heavy into that, but um, yeah, I would probably, um, um, like if I forgot a feed and went, oh crap, I did as quickly as possible and probably eat as much as I could without being sick.

I mean, don't, you don't want to eat yourself gross, but. But, you know, really kind of try to, try to get back to where you were and do that. And if you bon right, you're, you're duped. I mean, if, if you're, I'm sorry, but you, you'll perpetually be burning, you know, you're gonna just be, your body's gonna, you're not gonna go as hard because your body won't let you go hard because it's using.

Energy and metabolism that focuses on burning body fat, uh, and you're just, you just feed as much as you can, understanding that, you know, you bon, you have your gel and you're like, ah, I'm fine now. You're not fine, you're fine for 120 calories. And that's gonna pass pretty quick. So just, just keep feeding and stick to sugar as gross as it is.

[00:34:20]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. One of the things you alluded to, which I do think is important for athletes to consider is the type of course that they're on, and the better they can understand the course profile or the the moments of challenge that might be in front of 'em. The better probably they're gonna be at making their

[00:34:38]Denis Faye: Oh yeah,

[00:34:39]Craig Dalton (host): right, because it's No, no good hitting the single track sections in B W R and planning to eat during those sections.

You're just not

[00:34:47]Denis Faye: No, and also you don't wanna feed and then have to do a giant climb. Like, like you, you know, you wanna always be smart and, and I, a lot of those guys mess with you. Um, I mean that's, that's the joy of gravel. I, I love the, I love the, the, I keep saying sandbag, but the sand baggy nature. Um, there's a really great, um, there's another race, um, called the rock cobbler in Bakersfield.

Sam Ames, he really messes with people super funny, but, um, but you know, just because you have you, you're at the aid station doesn't mean that's when you need to feed. That just needs, that just means when you're putting stuff in your pocket for later, like really look at the course map and see where things are and think it through.

If, if, if you're worried about that.

[00:35:35]Craig Dalton (host): If you're on a sustained climb, do you recommend if, if it's a feeding time for you, do you recommend eating while you're climbing? If you're sort of sitting in the middle of an hour long climb and you're, you're certainly not gonna get to the other end of it prior to, uh, you know,

[00:35:52]Denis Faye: Um, that's a good question. I, um, I, I just typically go in the pain cave, which is probably not the best way to do it. Uh, if you think you can get away with, I mean, if you think you can get away with it, uh, Sure. Keep it like, keep it sugary, you know, don't, don't try to eat like a ham's sandwich or anything like, like stick to, uh, gels and goos and things if you think you can handle it.

Um, I mean, I, I am, I used to be a good climber before I married a French woman and that the cheese and wine took its toll. But, um, uh, my power went up though. That's the good news. Uh, what I gained a little weight, but, um, I'm not really a climbing anymore, but I really, I do love climbing and I go deep, like I, I'm just, I'm in, I'm in.

There's no eating When I'm doing those climbs, I'm just, it's about getting up that thing as fast as I can. So I would probably, I would probably think ahead, that'd probably be your best bet. And then immediately at the top, you know, cuz you don't see the guys in the tour eating going, do you? I don't know.

You don't really see them eating going uphill. I don't think that's a thing.

[00:37:02]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I don't know.

[00:37:04]Denis Faye: Well, it, it's about to

[00:37:06]Craig Dalton (host): So when we, when we get,

[00:37:07]Denis Faye: it out.

[00:37:08]Craig Dalton (host): yeah, I know. We just gotta look, you're, you're gonna be there in France this year, so you got a bird's eye view to see if they're feeding. So when we, when we get across the finish line, I mean, I think the tendency is to, at least for me, is to grab the nearest beer, grab the nearest kind of crappy comfort food to shove in my mouth.

What, what really should we be considering? What's the balance there? Obviously, we wanna celebrate our achievement, but any considerations we should be having?

[00:37:36]Denis Faye: you, you just did something epic, man. I mean, as long as it doesn't result in you barfing in a trash bucket, it just, just enjoy, like, like you trained for months. You, you did the work. You, you just did this hard thing. You like, like, you know, there's that kind of, I don't know if you've ever heard of the 80 20 rule for eating.

Eating. Like that's definitely, you're in the 20% zone, just, just, Enjoy it. Don't the one thing you should not do. Actually, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take this back because a lot of times you go do those events and you may have driven there and you're gonna be really dehydrated and depleted and alcohol is gonna hit you much harder.

So if you have to drive, be mindful that you're probably not gonna be able to hold your liquor very well. So I'd say that'd be the

[00:38:28]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I am definitely, I'm definitely one that gets leg cramps after these big events, and certainly the alcohol precipitates the arrival of those

[00:38:38]Denis Faye: yeah. Well then, you know, if that's, if you have your own kind of special requirements, you should certainly, certainly follow those. But I mean, party as much as is, is, is not, is sensible. You know, you don't wanna wake up with cramps or in jail. We'll just say that. Mm-hmm.

[00:38:56]Craig Dalton (host): All right. Somewhere in between those is your post B W R strategy. No cramps, no

[00:39:03]Denis Faye: beer's really good. What the Belgian waffle beer is, it's always really good. So

[00:39:09]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I love it. Well, I appreciate you, you, uh, Putting this content out there for the world, I'll put it in the show notes, links to both the book you've written about B w r nutrition as well as your, uh, personal newsletter so people know how to

[00:39:26]Denis Faye: I, I, you know, I'm, I don't, I don't deal with, uh, individual clients, but I really love answering these questions and helping people figure stuff out. And that that newsletter is a forum for just asking me questions and, and, uh, so that I can explore the situations with you and, uh, and, and help you come up with solutions that work for you.

So, I hope I can do that, and I, I hope, I hope I help people today a little bit, um, with some of the. The advice that, that you and I discussed.

[00:39:57]Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for the conversation, Denny

[00:39:59]Denis Faye: Thanks a lot.

[00:40:01]Craig Dalton (host): Cheer. Cheers.