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Nov 27, 2018

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Automagical Transcript Below -- please forgive the typos.

All right, mark, thanks for joining us on the podcast this week. I'm really excited to talk to you and learn more about your event.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

So we all just like starting out on The Gravel Ride, learning a little bit more about your background as a cyclist and how you got into the gravel scene.

Sure, yeah, I, um, I've been riding bikes for a while. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm a for context, I'm 50 so I've been, I've been endurance athlete for what I would say a 30 year window for me getting into cycling, really came from having a mountain bike in college and then moving into maybe more triathlon type background and then as I got older and, and running was starting to take its toll on me personally. I really ended up just writing a lot of bikes and so I'm like a lot of folks, I think, you know, your race, road bikes, you want to get off the road, um, uh, exploring new places you have maybe liked the speed of a road bike. So maybe I'm not a. So I started mountain biking. I really don't mountain bike a ton nowadays, um, but I really found gravel which was kinda that, that best of both worlds scenario for me and I'm really, once I started doing that, there was, there was no looking back, I still raised the road, but I think I look forward to gravel rides more than anything else so that, that sort of a, at least my, my, my entry into it.

You're located in steamboat springs at this point, is that right?

Yeah, I am. I spent the last couple of years in La, um, and I was road racing for the race team if you guys are familiar with, with that crew and Los Angeles and um, but moved back to steamboat this, uh, this August full time and uh, we'll probably be here for good.

Nice. Well, I'm eager to learn a little bit more about the terrain you called home around steamboat for the gravel bike and I'm excited to introduce our listeners to the event you're putting on. So why don't you tell us just in broad strokes about the event you just announced.

Sure. Well, for, for everybody, um, uh, it's called SBT GRVL. We're fortunate to be presented by Canyon Bikes, which is, as you guys know, is based in California. And um, we, um, we wanted to put together an event, um, I have two partners in the race, a guy named Ken banished and a woman named Amy Charity. Both, um, you know, x or racers, amy, um, was on the US national team. Kenza a former, a really elite cross racer and uh, you know, the three of us all live in steamboat and, and we were really talking really a couple of days this summer saying, Gosh, you know, there's so many great races out there, but none of them are really that close to home. I mean, for us, um, for the larger races that exist. The closest one is the crusher, which is a fantastic event, but it's still a seven hours away from steamboat.

And so, um, we either have to drive, you know, The Crusher in June or go out to a BWR or some of these other, um, land run these great races, but they're all pretty far away. So we had been riding gravel in steamboat for a long time. There's this amazing combination of the High Alpine with the ski area, um, and then these endless, endless, connected, um, gravel roads that support ranching and mining and an industry in Colorado and they just saw happen to come together and steamboat. And so the three of us were saying, well, look, why don't we introduced the world to our roads. Um, and so, you know, there were some other preceding a events and great introductions to too many people have the gravel roads in steamboat one in 2016. Rafa did a prestige ride in steamboat which hit 130 miles of gravel for the most part.

Um, a lot across many of the same roads that we're going to have into the three courses. Um, the moots ranch rally, which has been going on to support agriculture in, in steamboat and get people out and about has been going on for a decade. And um, you know, some of the same roads are used. And so we had some good insights from some folks from, from prior years. And we started looking at courses and we started looking at what we could accomplish and you know, we came up with this really amazing combination of exploration, uh, where we can see lots of different aspects of our community or a north in the middle and then south is steamboat. Um, and then the beauty of just Colorado. And, and uh, as we got talking more and more, we said let's do it and let's put something together. And so here we are with it with SBT GRVL.

That's amazing. And you decide your team decided on three different course. What are they and what was the rationale behind that?

Yeah. So the three different courses, um, you know, what, one of the things, you know, I think every race has its own thing, right? And you know, I think a lot of people would would say similar things about what certain races are, what they are or who they appeal to or, or you know, what the feel or vibe was. And, and for us, we're no different. We wanted to, our race to be inviting. We want it to be engaging. We wanted it to be certainly a challenge, but what we really wanted a lot of people to be able to participate. And so, um, we put together courses that are challenging but they're fair. We've got three distances. So if, if you're, if you're new to a gravel racing or even cycling for that matter. And I think that's really important is that we've got a 37 mile course with a couple thousand feet of climbing over rolling terrain that is about 50 slash 50 gravel and road that you can do on any bike.

And we saw that as a starting point. That was really, really important. Um, I think one of our jobs, if we're going to be a successful race promoter or an advocate for cycling, I'm not just gravel cycling, but cycling is to get more and more people involved. And so, um, we wanted to have something unique where, um, you know, many gravel races, it's a, it's a gravel race. You need to potentially new gravel bike or at least, uh, you know, a mount bike to participate at any level. And for this course, we wanted to make sure that if you have access to a bicycle and you want to give it a shot, you can and you can be a part of the weekends. And so that 37 mile course, we'll start with the dea with the big group, um, but about, uh, not really, only about six miles into the race, it's going to veer off to the left and the, the other two races are going to go off and hit some more challenging stuff.

But we're actually really, really excited about that. That 37 mile course I'm in the middle is what we're calling sbt gravel blue. Um, and that's a 100 mile course. It's got about 6,000 feet of climbing, um, and it mirrors the black course, which is the big one for the first 85 miles. Then it veers off. And, uh, it really cuts out the back 40 miles of the, of the dig course. Um, the way that we're describing sbt gravel blue, it's, it's the best to steamboat in 100 miles. You know, it's something that most cyclists could, um, put on their calendar and, and accomplished, um, but it's not going to wipe somebody out, um, you know, for a long period of time, you know, it's going to be a fair challenge. But, um, we think a lot of people are gonna really be interested in, in that course. Um, and then, you know, the big one, spq gravel, black, um, that's a 141 miles.

It's 9,000 feet of climbing and we can get into this course a little deeper. It, um, you know, this is if you really want to see what steamboat and Routt county and the surrounding communities have to offer for cycling and you're going to see it all in, in, in one day. And so, um, uh, we, we're really, really excited about it. We think it's really challenging. Um, but we think it's really fair. Um, and we think that the diversity of the terrain and what you're going to expect there is going to be really, really, really a fun different. Um, all types of variety. And uh, you know, it's all at elevation. So it's going to be really exciting. So. So, um, yeah, we can dig into that course as much as you would like, but it's going to be a, it's going to be a great one.

Yeah. One hundred and 41 miles. That seems like a big chunk of work. It's interesting. We often talk with event organizers about the profile of their rides because it really is difficult to compare one type of terrain to another. I was just down doing Peloton scrabble mob in. Oh, hi. A few weeks back and that was 8,000 feet of climbing over 60 miles.

I did it last year. Yeah, yeah, it was awesome.

Yeah, it's so, it's so interesting to me that you can take a ride that's that much shorter in length and pack that much verdin that's similar to what we experienced here. I was just before this ride I went out for a lunch ride and I realized like, it's pretty difficult for me to do an hour around mill valley without accumulating a thousand feet of climbing. Whereas when I was on the east coast, you know, a thousand feet of climbing might be something I would get over a 60 mile ride.

Right. No, totally. No, that, that's a, that's so true. I mean, the Gat gravel mob. Yeah. Going up that second section before you go into the, the really gnarly single track down hill section is, you know, you're questioning why you're still want to be out there, right? Because it, it just doesn't end

right. But,

um, but yeah, no, they're all different, you know, I think for our course to describe it to, to the audience and the listener, I think, um, it's, it, it, it gets a, what's the best way to put this? It's gonna wear on you. Okay. So we have a lot of climbing, you know, it's 9,000 feet of climbing, but it's not that much relatively speaking. I'm in 141 miles. Um, it's a lot but um, but it, it's spread out and then it's back heavy. So the last, um, 35 miles have about 3000 plus feet of climbing. And so I think the, the key to doing well, um, and defining well, right, whether you're racing, which, that, you know, that 10 percent of the field will be racing and 90 percent is going to be out there having a great time and just a personal accomplishment, which I think is the great thing about gravel in it in its own right.

Um, but that lasts 30 miles is, is going to be tough. And so, um, we're gonna have a spg gravel sponsored gravel rides every Saturday and Sunday and steamboats starting in April. And now what we're going to be talking about with people as we dissect sections of the course, um, is that obviously pacing a nutrition are going to really important. I'm finding people that you can ride with, um, and to help you get through the day and certainly the first, um, 100 miles of the course with as much energy possible. I think going to be really important because you, um, you can and as I'm sure you've seen in the races that you've done or are your friends who have done, you can overamped in these things and get going and you know, you see, um, you know, these really fast guys up front and you say, you know what, I want to stay connected and, you know, come mile 90, you might be reconsidering.

Right. Um, that whole strategy. So, um, so the lay of the land for the black is, um, you know, it, it basically goes into big circles around the north and south. The steamboat with a parallel section, the middle, that would maybe be the best way I can, I can describe it. And um, but the first 20 miles of that course though, they only have about 1500 feet of climbing, it will feel like there's a lot more. And I'm one of the roughest gravel sections, at least the way the roads were functioning this year. And they always change, you know, depending on how the winter goes. Um, but one of the roughness sections I'm coming out of the gate starts at mile seven and goes to mile 15. Um, it's called fly Gulch and um, it's got some punchy climbs. It's got some loose gravel and then it's got some silt.

And so if it rains, that silt gets really mucky. If it doesn't, it gets really dusty. Um, and it causes problems. And so I think, um, there's gonna be opportunities for people to get away right away. I'm in that race, um, you know, it winds around for a little bit after that section and you hit 'em a little bit of a downhill. And then, um, we're fortunate we're going to get the racers on about four miles of private land, um, that no one ever gets to ride. I'm one of the ranchers in the community has been so generous and is offered up that a option for us. So we're gonna ride that it's going to go through his farm, it's going to go past, um, you know, in 19 forties, retired a greyhound bus. It's going to go through some really cool things and then it's going to get to really the first climbing section of the day, which is called steamboat lake.

It's going to be a formal climb, um, it'll average in, you know, seven to 10 percent zone. And I think right out of the gate there, Mile Twenty five to 30, you're going to really start remembering that you're at, you know, seven thousand eight thousand feet of racing. I'm in steamboat. So, um, so that's kind of the first section of the course. Once you get to that, through that climb, you ride through some terrain, you do a long road descent, which I think a lot of people will actually appreciate when they can recover from, from, uh, really the first 35 miles will be almost exclusively on gravel. Um, and you'll get to that dissent. You'll retrace a little bit, um, and then you'll get to some really rolling ranch section. Then you'll get back into some climbing than some really fast gravel descending on, um, again, loose rocky terrain, which will, you know, make sure that you pick the right tires and the right equipment, which I think that will come into play a little bit certainly on, for this race or ride. Certainly for the descending. I don't think I'm, the tires are going to be a massive factor for riders. I'm on the flat sections or the climbing. Um, but the descending is where, um, you know, things like that are really gonna come into play.

Are the writers mostly on fire roads to begin with?

Yeah. Mostly, you know, and it's really, I'm not even, I wouldn't say it's defined as a fire road because you're not going up like the ski area or a big Alpine climbs, but I think it's comparative. Um, road quality to fire roads for sure. They're open gravel roads that are servicing the ranching community for the most part. So, um, vehicles can travel on those and they do, um, you might not see a car for four hours, but, but, um, that's the type of, of road. Yeah, that you would see, and then actually, once you get past this, um, this first, let's say 75 miles that I just described and the terrain shifts because you, you actually do then get out into more of an alpine environment again. Um, you go up a big climb at about mile 90, which is where I think the race is really going to separate, um, it's called Trout Creek.

It's going to be about a nine mile climb. Um, it's gradual the first five or six miles and then it gets quite steep the last three and then you have this long sweeping 10 mile descent on fire road, exact description, but with really loose sections and some washboards depending on how, how the the summer goes. And so again, you're going to be tired. You're going to be four or five, six, seven hours into it by then and um, you know, then you're going to really be making, um, decisions on just how you get through that last 40 miles. So, um, so yeah, that's sort of a description of the first hundred, the last 40 miles of that steamboat gravel black. Um, the best way to describe it is that you're just going to get punched in the mouth. Um, by six or seven, one, two, two mile climbs, they're all going to be six to 10 percent.

Um, some will be on the road, some will be on gravel. I'm at mile one slash 28. There's a climb called the corkscrew that's about one mile average, about 11 percent, which is going to be tough. Uh, you get outta there. You do two more clients and then need to send back into steamboat. So like I said, it's um, it's going to be challenging towards the end. Um, the, the, the riders that really have done well on nutrition and pacing, um, are going to do great. Um, everybody's going to have a great time, but it, um, it'll wear on you at the end.

It sounds like it. I bet a number of my listeners are licking their lips saying this sounds awesome. And another banter shaking in their boots right now.

Yeah, I think for those that are those guys that like a big challenge above climbing, they like, I'm back heavy courses, they're going to absolutely love racing it. Um, but I do think that everyone hopefully listening saying, wow, I'm going to get to see an incredible amount of steamboat and the terrain around there. It's all kinds of varied options. Um, you know, you're going to see Sam silt, rocky glass, fire roads, you know, as perfect as you can possibly get where you can make up some time or at least recover and eat and take care of yourself. And I'm the one thing that I think that we can really agree on, at least the of the steamboat residents. It's just going to be beautiful. Um, it's going to be really well supported. We're going to have the course heavily marked. Um, you're not going to get lost.

You're going to have all the things that you need to get you through the day and, um, we're going to have a ton of volunteers out there. So, um, I, I think from that aspect it's going to be really, really fun. And, you know, the rider is going to be able to focus on writing, um, they're not going to have to worry about, um, a lot of those things that caused me stress. I know I always really get worried about making a wrong turn, you know, I just don't, I don't want to burn those attention units on that. Um, and we're going to do our best to make sure that doesn't happen. Everyone will have the gps of course, but um, we'll have it well marked. Um, you, we will have a ton of nutrition. You know, Google is going to be a partner for us. Um, we'll have maverick oncourse with neutral and um, and uh, it's going to be really, really fun.

Now that the course distance, I've spoken about this on a number of occasions as well. It seems like you've got one camp of race organizers that are sort of tending towards this ultra distance type racing, which 140 miles I think we'd categorize there. And then the other side of it, it's a shorter, the shorter, faster races. Were there some races or types of races that you were modeling this around and said you're yourself, you know, five years from now we'd like people to be thinking of us in the category of this type of race?

Yeah, yeah. Maybe I think, I think, as I said, maybe earlier that each of the races that, that we really liked doing. And I mean my, you know, my partner amy came in sixth dirty Kanza, um, this summer. My partner Ken was, I think 11th at the crusher. Um, you know, we all love dwr and are going to all race that, um, this, this spring. Um, and really love what Michael is doing there. So I think we were maybe inspired by all of those races. Just the ones that we do. The gravel mob was, was fantastic. I really had fun with that. Um, as an example. And honestly I think for us it was, we wanted something that was challenging. We didn't want something necessarily that people. I'm just bucket listed. Maybe we're, wow, I'm going to do that once and I'm never coming back. You know, we, and, and maybe some people will think that for sure, but, but we, we were more interested in having a variety of options for the racer and then maybe even, I think hopefully seeing some people say, well, this year I did a 37 mile course, next year I'll do the 100 and, and they have this big aspiration for the SBT gravel, black.

But, um, I think, I think all the races are so different and their terrain so different. I think that's what makes them great. And they have these different profiles. Um, you know, if you talked with Michael Marks, he doesn't even like to have his race called a gravel race, right. You know, it's a spring classic. Um, and so, um, I think we, we tried to look at, um, the type of race that may be the three of us would want to do, right, well, you know, do we want to have our own navigation or do we want to have people telling us where to go? We all said we'd like to take that out of the equation. Right. Tell us where to go. Right. So, um, you know, do we want to have a bunch of people supporting us or not? Right. And, you know, we made a decision that we would like to, to have at least most of what you would need available oncourse and um, that's great.

And you know, everybody has different versions of that. So, um, I think that the real delineation for us is that we really wanted us back in the racer, um, whether you're racing for prize money, which, you know, a lot of people have have debated if prize money should be a part of the gravel community. Um, you know, we see both sides, but we're looking at it. I'm not in changing gravel or changing the dynamic, which, you know, maybe it will do, maybe it won't, I don't, we'll have to see when our race goes, but, but we're looking at that more as investing back in eraser. We want people that are looking at doing this for a living or doing this as a, as a really, um, significant hobby, um, to potentially be rewarded for that. And so, um, you know, that was in, that was a decision that we had to make, you know what I mean. So I think for us, I'm investing back in the racer introducing people to the beauty of, of the region and then having a really strong option for people to race in the rocky mountains that had something for everybody. But those were probably, um, you know, the big motivators and you know, we'll see, you know, registration opens next week and we'll hope that a bunch of people want to want to be a part of it. And um, you know, we hope that we can come through as organizers and have a great experience for them.

Yeah. I liked one of the things you said earlier, which was just you and your partner is just wanted to showcase how great a gravel riding destination steamboat is. And I think with, with that or would that origin the course is going to speak volumes, right? Because you guys live there. These are the roads do you are choosing to share with your community, which should be really excited citing for anybody from out of town to come in and participate in.

Yeah, totally. And I think it's, it's really gonna be fun. I think this spring, um, you know, we hope and, and uh, are really anticipating a bunch of people once they register and are planning their calendar and how they're going to train and all of that. Um, to come and visit, you know, steamboat once or twice, you know, for, as you said, this is a, it's a long race if you're going to do the, the, the black horse and um, you know, I know for sure back to any race I've ever done. If I have familiarity with the course, I've just so much more confidence. Right? And how my day's going to go and how I plan, how I manage. And so we're hoping that on these weekends, spt gravel sponsored rides, that's a lot of people will come up, whether they're, you know, just from the front range of Denver, Boulder, um, they drive over from Salt Lake or, or they make a weekend or a week of training out of it.

Um, the beauty of it is that you can get to any part of this course from downtown steamboat in about an hour and a half ride time, you know, so you can bite off, for example, if you want to come for three days and, and hit the three primary sections of spt, grab a black. You can do 3:50 mile rides from steamboat and see it all and, you know, not totally wipe yourself out, right? A couple of sections multiple times. Really get an understanding of, you know, maybe where you'll be at this point in your day and how to plan for it. And, you know, we'll have a bunch of support for those rides. I'm Amy Ken and I will be on them every weekend. Um, I think, I think for us, we think that's really, really important that, you know, the, the organizers, um, understand what's going on with the race and the course. And so, um, we're excited to have a bunch of people visit, show them around and go have a beer, have dinner with them, talk about the course and talk about steamboat. I, we, we, um, in every sense of the word. I think we want this to be an ambassador type event for our community and um, you know, really bring, um, this aspect of it.

Speaking of which, what else should we expect during the weekend if we come to steamboat?

Yeah, no, great question. We have a lot planned and we're racing on Sunday. Um, and that was really on purpose. We wanted people to be able to come to steamboat with their families. We didn't want to. Maybe this is the road racer in me personally, but I didn't want to have people show up late Friday, you know, get up, get your race number it on, do your race Saturday morning and go home, which is, you know, the majority of the road races I've ever done personally have gone that way. And um, we wanted people to have the ability to bring their families or bring their friends, race with their friends, um, and enjoy the weekend because there is so much to do for your family member, your spouse, your significant other, your kids in steamboat in the middle of August. It's just amazing. It's an amazing time to be, to be in this part of the country.

And so, um, we've got all these things. You know, the steamboat is famous for its hot springs. It's famous for its ski area. I'm hiking, fishing, mountain biking. We're going to have an expo on Saturday. We're going to have a group ride Saturday morning, um, before that. Um, but the expo and registration or check in for the race is going to be held in conjunction with the steamboat farmer's markets. So you're going to have 150, um, food and, and other types of vendors. I'm part of our race expo where all of our sponsors and other folks that want to hang out with us and ride bikes and talk about their products and businesses are going to be, um, we're going to have, um, a symposium on a variety of topics, uh, sponsored by some folks. You know, one of the things that, um, you know, aspirationally we have is, is the parody angle of, of cycling in general.

Um, and so with our race, you know, we have big goals. I'm certainly of having 50 slash 50 participation men and women. Um, we're certainly having a with our prize purses, you know, we're paying five deep to the men's and women's pro field, equal prize money. Um, we think that's really, really important. So think we're going to have some partners talking about women in sport, women in cycling. There's some other topics that are really, um, important to us that we may get to, talking to around potentially a Tbi, mental health, things of that nature. Um, at this symposium. And then certainly having a lot of our elite athletes hopefully be interviewed and, and be able to engage and talk with some of the other racers. So we'll have that all going on on Saturday. And then Sunday 6:30 sharp, we'll get off and race and you know, hopefully last finisher will come in around 9:00 PM. We'll um, we'll have a great support for people all weekend and they want to keep making it an annual thing. That's, that's really, um, at the end of the day, that's the goal is to have people come with their families and, and have a great time and then maybe come back even in the winter and now we're even linking up some winter ski benefits for all the racers that they enter. So it, uh, it's a, it's a big, it's a big a rallying cry for our community. But I think people are going to have a great time.

That's great. You touched on it a little bit earlier in passing, but just just to nail it home from an equipment perspective on the black roots, you, you've mentioned sort of on some of the descents that was going to be where tire choice may come into play versus on the climbs you might be able to get away with something fairly narrow.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, I, I absolutely, and we say this on our website and our race or guide right now. I mean, you could get through this course on a bwr style with a, you know, a robot in 28. Um, I think it'd be very challenging to win. I'm a, or get through it as fast versus being on a road bike, you know, um, our race, it's 140, one miles, 125 of those are on grass, you know, Michael's race, which is amazing, but it's 100 miles on the road, you know, and so his, his race is certainly way more complicated from an equipment standpoint. You know, it's, I mean, I, I, I bet you, I think about his tire choice for his race most days, right? Because I just don't, there's so many different, different options and um, but for our race, you know, I think, you know, what we're recommending is, is um, you know, panel racers sponsor, so we, we think that, you know, the gravel king that they have in a 38 or the gravel King Ski, a 35 are, are probably the best ways to go, but that with, regardless of the brand that you, you know, you select, do you want a ride?

Um, we think is probably right. Um, you know, there are some pretty rough desense, um, there's some really fast corners where, you know, that that sk or a Knob I'm a or tread pattern is going to really help you around those corners. Um, you know, it, it's just going to be, I think important and especially if it gets washboard, which we've seen. So, um, and there are some pretty long descents on, on gravel, so, so that's sort of the thinking there.

Yeah. It's always an interesting conundrum going into a new event, trying to figure out what tire is optimized for the course that sits in front of me.

Yeah. And we, you know, all of my partners and I, everyone in steamboat that rides a lot of gravel has written all these roads. I'm on 28. Um, I can tell you all of the Klms and all of the KLM is on defense and fastest times today have been on gravel tires and those are just going same exact rider, same fitness. I'm against the road bike with 28. So, um, so I, that would be our recommendation for sure. But um, you know, we'll see every, it's always interesting to see what people show up with and um, you know, the, the only thing that we're saying that, um, we, we really aren't going to want his arrow bars because there's just so much time on, on a, a mountain up and down. Um, and, and you're going to need your breaks a lot. And Man, I hope if you show up on a road bike, at least have disc brakes.

That's really cool.

Really. It's not mandatory, but, but man, it would be highly recommended.

Well, this is a lot of great information, mark. I appreciate you joining us on the show. I think it's a great adventure. The website. Super Informative and I'll post a note to that in the show notes so everybody can go check it out. And remind me again what the url is and when the exact date of entries open up.

Yeah, the url you can find us@sbtgravel.com. And a registration for general entry opens December fourth, but if you go to sbt gravel.com before the weekend, um, you can guarantee entry and get 20 percent off by opting into our email. So we're going to send, um, a, an entry code basically out, um, for everyone to get in. And then that registration for people with code is going to be actually on Monday, 7:00 AM mountain time, December third. So, um, we, we, uh, we have no idea on how fast the race has kind of fill up, but we have had a lot of interests. So we hope that people take advantage of, um, you know, the discount and get guaranteed under the race on December third.

Great. And once we've got our entry, are there some social channels that we should follow to get a little sneak peeks of the course and some of the training rides if we're not local to Colorado?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean we've got everything is at SBT GRVL for twitter, facebook, instagram and youtube. And um, there's actually a couple of really good videos out on the course already. Um, uh, Jason O from Gravel cyclists was out and did a really cool review of the course. He was able to prewrite it and so he put a video up on gravel cyclists.com. That's pretty cool. And um, we've got, uh, and we'll have a full analysis of every section of the course monthly, um, on our sbt gravel youtube channel. So, um, I would highly recommend checking those out. They're going to be anywhere from two to three minutes, you know, nothing too big from a time commitment standpoint, but we'll really dive into going through that course section. Talk about really what you should be thinking when you're in that section where you might be in a proximity to aid stations, the sense other support and things of that nature. So we'll really dissect the course, I think, um, some other races have done a great job. Leadville with their podcast talks about sections and we really thought that was a good idea. So we'll add some video elements to that, but it should be pretty cool.

That's great. I think sharing all that information will be awesome for anybody preparing for the event. So mark, thanks again. I'll let you go. You have a good evening and you know, we look forward to talking to you again soon.

No, thanks a lot. I really appreciate you having me on.